Ladies and Gents,I'm sure we're all aware of Aerosoft's bold plan to create a new simulator, dubbed Aerosoft Flight Simulator 2012 (AFS2012), however, we were all left guessing after the monthly updates stopped at the end of last year. In response to all of the negative comments, Mathijs Kok has posted this:

My my, what a load of post and what negative comments. Mind you were are used to that by now, if you try to be open and honest and most certainly if you try to include potential customers into projects most will like it and participate, some will expect more then you can show/tell or are willing to show/tell and will be ###### off. We see exactly the same pattern for any project we handle that way. But it's okay.

Because Mathijs that is what you are doing "Stuffing Potential Consumers Around"

Now honestly and without any derogatory idea behind it, I got no idea what you mean. Could be we got a language issue here, "stuffing around" is not something I am familiar with. If you mean that we tell people that we are seriously thinking about a new simulator and like to discus that with our customer? Well sure, that's how like it. I mean if you don't like it, simply don't read it! It's not like telling people a new simulator is coming helps us sell what we are doing right now, right?Let me update you as much as I can. This is a multimillion dollar project and without signed contracts and the marketing girls having done what the like to do my hands are tight. But we made great steps. Money is strangely enough not a major issue, we got some, Aerosoft is a very healthy company. We also got the partner we wanted, if you are going to bump heads with Mama Microsoft you better have some muscle. We also think we know what you, the customer, want. A simulator that is fast, open (fully documented) and above all a solid base for further developments. Currently we are in the stage of going from paper to coding and for a project of this size that's always a major step. Contracts need to be signed, people got to change jobs, move country etc. Are we going to do a new simulator? Personally I think so, my CEO pays me to push it. Is it going to happen? Yeah sure it is, but now you know why I say that. Lol. Things look good but that's all I can say. Is it going fast enough? Hell no, we are calling it AFS2013 already.Now on to samples shown and links given. We know all those and we smiled a lot about the three days. See we actually USE these kinds of files for the US cities series. Just check Google Earth Building Maker and you got a good idea how these things work. We got similar but professional tools that we use for professional projects. But they are far from anything that could be used in a flight simulator that we need. Believe me we look at all these things, all these engines. all these demos. But when we ask these companies to show something on a round earth, with sight lines of 100 miles, using DX11 and not using more then 30% of resources (we also got to do flight modeling, weather, user interface, online stuff etc etc) you will get a lot less enthusiastic responses. If at all. We spend a whopping lot of money on trying to find what we need and so far it seems it just does not exist (professional sims most certainly can't). So we got to adapt something. I am sorry you feel 'stuffed around'. But that's all I am willing to say right now.

In my eyes, it looks quite promising, or are they just giving us what we wanted to hear?What do you think?PS: Sorry to be creating another AFS topic.

Couple of points struck out at me. One it looks like 2013 instead of 2012, and that's before coding and other major steps are even started, so it will likely be delayed even further, as projects of this magnitude usually are. The other thing was that they got the partner they wanted, with the statement "if you are going to bump heads with Mama Microsoft you better have some muscle." Since MS always partner with Boeing (and Cessna), could that mean they got Airbus? Of course that's pure speculation, but that was an interesting comment he made!!

I've always thought the Aerosoft flight sim sounded promising even though I thought 2012 sounded rather optimistic for a schedule. I'll confess I did think it might potentially be more like perhaps Flight Unlimited or Fly was (in scope) given that 2012 date, i.e. possibly with not all areas of the Earth covered. But that would be no bad thing, since I suspect people would prefer a realistic sim with some really good landscapes in a few places, which has the potential to expand, as opposed to a half-assed job of the whole world. After all, Aerosoft make add-on airports, so why not create your own market for such products?Aerosoft can and do make so great stuff too, including stuff for the 'real' world of flight simulation (i.e. as training products rather than pure entertainment ones), so they know what they are doing for sure. They can knock out good entertainment stuff too, anyone who bought African Airstrip Adventures, or their A300 or Twotter will know they are no slouches at partnering with people and banging out top notch add-ons for FS, and their documentation is often better than that of other companies too, so it's usually a professional job they make of things. So I firmly believe they can pull it off. They may even go one better and make a host sim environment that can support things like farming sims, fork lift sims, fishing and hunting sims etc as well as simulated aircraft, since that would be a great way to widen the sales base for a simulated world and it is something I would look at if I was them - a kind of 'living world' host sim if you like.It's interesting to speculate on who the partner might be. Of course it might simply be a business angel and not necessarily an aviation company of any sort. It might even be MS themselves, after all, he doesn't deny that LOL. Or even better, can you imagine how funny it would be if it was Bill Gates out to prove to the MS CEO that he can pull it off twice?It would be interesting if it was EADS though, and that's not necessarily a wild-assed guess from tf51d, since we do know that the forthcoming Aerosoft A320, aside from being an entertainment product, has some routes in being a training product for a professional client. I'll have a laugh and say that its Gulfstream (General Dynamics) - now that'd be really funny.Al

To me the key phrase is: "Are we going to do a new simulator? Personally I think so "which is as uncommital as you can get.In a previous existance, I was involved with engineering contractors who could put together team and submit a formal tenders for $500+ million projects in less time than Aerosoft has taken to get to wshere it now is.

Aerosoft have no obligation whatsoever to develop a new flight simulator. Why are some people getting so annoyed at the lack of information or progress? We are not going to see any final product any time soon, so I suggest that everyone forgets about it, and concentrates on what we have at the moment.

One of the biggest possibilities that could happen with Aerosoft is that they may stop all MSFS add-on development and concentrate on the AFS2012 only. Or will they?

It would be interesting to see Google partner with Aerosoft.I could see Google perhaps doing it... it would be like a symbolic "taking over" of Microsoft in a way since MSFS is one of Microsoft's most historic products.As for 2013: It's possible, but Aerosoft no doubt knows the golden rule: To get a realistic estimate, multiple your budget by two and the time by three!

It would be interesting to see Google partner with Aerosoft.

Indeed. Ever since Christian Buchner announced that Google contacted him about removing Google Maps compatibility from Tileproxy, I've been hoping that Google has been positioning itself to take a serious crack at the flight sim market.

Hi there, just read something on Outerra's forum, would anyone else say this statement describes Aerosoft:

We have been approached by "a second biggest player in the flight simulation in Germany" some time ago

Could Aerosoft be considering a partnership with Outerra?

One of the biggest possibilities that could happen with Aerosoft is that they may stop all MSFS add-on development and concentrate on the AFS2012 only. Or will they?

I don't think they will stop making MSFS add-ons, at least until their own simulator is ready. They will need to generate an income during their development and also need to stay active in the market and fs community. besides, it is likely that most add-ons that they develop for MSFS will be made available for their own sim as well.Whether they keep developing for MSFS AFTER their own sim is ready is another matter, but FS9 and FSX might be obsolete by then.

Does anyone find this part of the statement as interesting as I do?"But when we ask these companies to show something on a round earth, with sight lines of 100 miles, using DX11 and not using more then 30% of resources (we also got to do flight modeling, weather, user interface, online stuff etc etc) you will get a lot less enthusiastic responses. If at all."

Outerra is a distinct possibility, but Aerosoft did say they had not found proprietary solution which totally suited their needs. Nevertheless, it has been mooted that (as I noted in my previous post), such an engine could be the host for a 'world sim' that might form the basis of a simulation environment for a number of different sim arenas, everything from 'second life' type stuff to dedicated flight simulation. That would certainly be an exciting prospect, if for example someone in an action game had to get from one place to another in the world and had to fly there on your simulated charter helicopter flight. How cool would that be to have 'real' passengers that you could talk to, who actually boarded your aircraft?Al

Nevertheless, it has been mooted that (as I noted in my previous post), such an engine could be the host for a 'world sim' that might form the basis of a simulation environment for a number of different sim arenas, everything from 'second life' type stuff to dedicated flight simulation. That would certainly be an exciting prospect, if for example someone in an action game had to get from one place to another in the world and had to fly there on your simulated charter helicopter flight. How cool would that be to have 'real' passengers that you could talk to, who actually boarded your aircraft?

As optimistic as it sounds, I don't know why I see it with a bit of scepticism. It seems too much work to do

Does anyone find this part of the statement as interesting as I do?"But when we ask these companies to show something on a round earth, with sight lines of 100 miles, using DX11 and not using more then 30% of resources (we also got to do flight modeling, weather, user interface, online stuff etc etc) you will get a lot less enthusiastic responses. If at all."

Very interesting indeed. Most games the graphics reserve 80% of the resources, flight modelling, weather, user interface and online combined takes less than 5% at the very most. Audio actually takes more resources than what they mentioned. At the end of the day no one is going to sell you a flight sim optimized engine, if one existed I doubt it would be for sale. The closest thing to that was Outerra and Aerosoft already passed.So really this just shows they don't know what they're doing.... and in reality this response sounds like a rooster call .

Not sure that is an entirely accurate assessment of where they are coming from. We have to remember that the computer games and simulation industry is a competitive one, and nobody shows their hand if they don't need to, nor are they averse to a bit of misdirection aimed past the supposed audience and intended for consumption by competitors. Any business worth its salt will make a point of projecting an idea that might make its competitors underestimate it.In short, never take any announcements from a company at entirely face value, there's often a lot more to them than meets the eye. Aerosoft didn't blunder their way into being one of the biggest sim companies there is.Al