I wouldn't say they are wrong, per se. I think they are just horrendously ill-tempered and anything they don't agree with they get mad at.

I agree with that; I was really just trying to make that analogy work haha.

Back on topic - check this out:http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/psr/pns/2011/July/dustStormZ.gifThe haboob shoots out like a shockwave from the storms to the south of Phoenix - pretty amazing.

Did it do much damaged? Must have left alot of mess :(

Did it do much damaged? Must have left alot of mess :(

Some power lines were knocked down and some trees were knocked down (if I have my dates right). A lot of dust spread around making our baseball stadium's roof dirty.

Thats not to bad... I thought there be alot of brushing up..Amazing to watch :(

Back on topic - check this out:http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/psr/pns/2011/July/dustStormZ.gifThe haboob shoots out like a shockwave from the storms to the south of Phoenix - pretty amazing.

Hello Ryan,Just out of curiousity: Did the authorities warn you people to stay indoors or any other kind of warning?I live in Europe (Holland) and have never experienced this kind of sandstorms.The only thing we have here is - if the sahara had a storm - we would get a lot of sand here.You would find your car covered with sand, only a few hours after you washed it. (These "sand-coverings" are very rare. Me washing my care is (more) rare. And yet, these two always come right one after the other :( ).Btw : I saw that you closed yet another topic. I lost count by now, but I can't remember in the history of FS so many "lock-up's" in any forum.I have a suggestion: Once you reach your 25't lock, I think you ought to be recommended for a AVSIM Award! (Showing bravery against an overwhelming enemy etc)Regards,Wijnand Lindelauf (EHBK)

Hello Ryan,Just out of curiousity: Did the authorities warn you people to stay indoors or any other kind of warning?I live in Europe (Holland) and have never experienced this kind of sandstorms.The only thing we have here is - if the sahara had a storm - we would get a lot of sand here.You would find your car covered with sand, only a few hours after you washed it. (These "sand-coverings" are very rare. Me washing my care is (more) rare. And yet, these two always come right one after the other :( ).Btw : I saw that you closed yet another topic. I lost count by now, but I can't remember in the history of FS so many "lock-up's" in any forum.I have a suggestion: Once you reach your 25't lock, I think you ought to be recommended for a AVSIM Award! (Showing bravery against an overwhelming enemy etc)Regards,Wijnand Lindelauf (EHBK)

I second the award . Now, I'm not Ryan but I live in Phoenix so I think I can answer these types of questions. I was watching tv and the news people kept breaking in covering the storm and sort of stay indoors. In fact they just told us not to drive in the dust. But this storm was a bit too dangerous for people to drive in the dark and little/no visibility. Most cars don't come with HUGS or a car version of a localizer. :(

I live in Europe (Holland) and have never experienced this kind of sandstorms.The only thing we have here is - if the sahara had a storm - we would get a lot of sand here.

+1 (minus the Holland)I'm really wondering if these things do any harm to people. They certainly look frightening, especially in that first time-lapse video. But in the other ones you can see it sets on quite slowly rather than in a second or two as if the world ended... What is the visibility in there? Are planes still flying? Certainly time to get the DU, SA and SS codes into the METAR haha. Or is it 'only' a major amount of dirt that need be cleaned up afterwards, but otherwise pretty harmless? Sorry just as the former poster we really don't have this over here, not anything even remotely close.

+1 (minus the Holland)I'm really wondering if these things do any harm to people. They certainly look frightening, especially in that first time-lapse video. But in the other ones you can see it sets on quite slowly rather than in a second or two as if the world ended... What is the visibility in there? Are planes still flying? Certainly time to get the DU, SA and SS codes into the METAR haha. Or is it 'only' a major amount of dirt that need be cleaned up afterwards, but otherwise pretty harmless? Sorry just as the former poster we really don't have this over here, not anything even remotely close.

Visibility can get bad. My grandfather was/is a truck (18-wheeler) driver and in 1975 he encountered a dust storm. He smacked into another diesel and either sent him and/or the other truck way down the road. We're dealing with visibility down to a few feet. Airports do get shut down. Phoenix Shy Harbor went to a ground stop for at least an hour I think. Dust even set off the fire alarms. But if you stay safe, it is awesome to look at. You stay inside and wait it out. If you're on the road, pull off the road as far as you can and turn off the car and lights and wait it out. Just part of the weather the desert throws at us sometimes. And please, do not drive through a flooded wash. It's not safe and you'll end up on the nightly news being rescued and looking like an idiot.

Video taken from the last Southwest flight that attempted to land before the haboob hit the airport - they went missed and diverted to Tucson.

Don't blame me - I don't want a "Europe" or to be any part of it but a bunch of people called politicians are deciding that for me. :( Europe ARE idiots (and I'm sure you are smart enough to know exactly which Europeans I am referring to without thinking I'm referring to all 550 million people???) for thinking you can safely fly through anything resembling sand paper at 500 kts with very precisely built equipment without any repercussions later.Just ask NASA what they think of the idea. They flew a fully equipped 707 through ash, and they had detectors built for the purpose that told them the air they were flying through was clear. A borescope inspection later found they'd destroyed all 4 engines. They sat in Iceland waiting for spares. Needless to say when they flew back they gave the cloud an additional 500 mile clearance on top of the 500 miles they already gave it!Best regards,Robin.

Robin,You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. When that Icelandic volcano erupted, most of European airspace was closed for a few days. It was opened up bit by bit according to where the ash cloud had blown to. If anything, the "idiots" reaction was considered by many to be too severe.John

Robin,You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. When that Icelandic volcano erupted, most of European airspace was closed for a few days. It was opened up bit by bit according to where the ash cloud had blown to. If anything, the "idiots" reaction was considered by many to be too severe.John

+1i live 35 km away from EDDF so there are lots of planes flying over my house every day. (4 in the last minutes)Frankfurt airport was closed 2 days after the eruption of the volcano at Iceland.They closed the airport for 4-5 days i think and in this time, things got quiet around Frankfurt airspace.The decision to close the airports (even the bigger ones like EDDF) was made really fast. I think i've read an article in our newspaper that Lufthansa had a loss of 200 million € in these days (could be wrong... don't really know anymore)So please don't call europeans idiots because we send our aircrafts into volcanic dust because actually we didn't do things like this.Regards,

So please don't call europeans idiots because we send our aircrafts into volcanic dust because actually we didn't do things like this.

+1(Although I consider myself British, rather than a European!)I actually got 'stuck' in Barbados while on holiday out there due to the Airspace closures in the UK which lasted for several days following the eruption.. It was so hard having those extra 8 days sat by the pool drinking Rum while the holiday company picked up the tab!I also bumped into the SFO in Duty Free before we boarded and had a good chat about how much fun the empty 747 was they flew out to rescue us :-)Those Vids of the haboob are pretty mad, especially from the air, reminds me a bit of the sandstorm I saw out in Tunisia a few years back, which incidentally was followed by one of the most epic storms I've seen.Cheers,Andy Hedges

Video taken from the last Southwest flight that attempted to land before the haboob hit the airport - they went missed and diverted to Tucson.

Wow, that's amazing.I imagine being the pilot thinking, "Came on baby, fly faster that is catching on us"

+1i live 35 km away from EDDF so there are lots of planes flying over my house every day. (4 in the last minutes)Frankfurt airport was closed 2 days after the eruption of the volcano at Iceland.They closed the airport for 4-5 days i think and in this time, things got quiet around Frankfurt airspace.The decision to close the airports (even the bigger ones like EDDF) was made really fast. I think i've read an article in our newspaper that Lufthansa had a loss of 200 million € in these days (could be wrong... don't really know anymore)So please don't call europeans idiots because we send our aircrafts into volcanic dust because actually we didn't do things like this.Regards,

+1It is peculiarly misconceived to accuse "Europe" of failing to shut-down airspace: "Europe" attracted criticism for over-reacting, not for being too relaxed.It is also unproductive and offensive to invite discussion at this level. No decision is intrinsically either better or worse for having been taken by a "European" or an "American". No special significance attaches to the fact that the air-traffic controllers at Phoenix who allowed aeroplanes to continue to attempt landings in the teeth of a colossal dust storm were "Americans" - mercifully without disastrous consequences, or that it was NASA and its American sub-contractors who allowed Challenger to launch in low temperature conditions even though it was known, or should have been known, that this might compromise the "O" rings - sadly with disastrous consequences. Judgments like these are made by individuals, not by continents; sometimes they are good, sometimes they are bad; whether good or bad, Chauvinism only obscures the lessons which ought to be learnt from them.Tim