If you ask me - I think altitude is the issue with anyone not being able to maintain speeds. I've put a lot of hops and hours in this NGX. and only had an issue once with speed. When ATL center was overloaded and asked me to drop some rediculous amount to intercept the localizer. I intercepted it alright - also ran plum out the end of the stadium with it. I find this bird very nice to fly - at time it almost feels sluggish. But having had some time behind the real sim - I'd say its pretty spot on.

When ATL center was overloaded and asked me to drop some rediculous amount to intercept the localizer.

Don't you just hate it when they forget about you and then at the last minute (when it requires you to become a dive bomber) they come back and say descend to KARLA 11K and 250 knots. Last time they said that i was at 3500 fpm and around 350 knots by time I hit 11k.

.Your guys ops specs might be different but our only limitation is do not deploy the speed brakes in flight at radio altitudes less than 1000 feet. We don't have a limitation about using them more than flaps 10 though they do really buffet the plane if you do.

I was just referring to the Boeing NG Training manual that states anything flaps 15 or greater is not recommended but our ops dont allow us.

Hi guys, as a real pilot myself (on the bus, and not on the 737), I feel that european ATC is sometimes a bit too pushy on the speeds. Standard is, at least in Europe, 180 to 6, 170 to 5, 160 to 4. Not more, not less. Lot of airports, require you to intercept at 210 and then reduce to 180 when established on LOC, to mantain until 6. Anyways, to make it short... on the Airbus, 180 to 6 is already good, considering that if you have a bit of tailwind you will struggle to slow down anyways... (bare in mind 6nm is more or less, 1800feet AGL...). So I suppose that the 737 will be quite similar. Take care.

We do the same in the U.S. But this plane just won't slow. Put out flaps and it doesn't slow, put out speedbrakes at 1000 feet even and it won't slow. Something needs to be tweaked with this flight model, I hope!

We do the same in the U.S. But this plane just won't slow. Put out flaps and it doesn't slow, put out speedbrakes at 1000 feet even and it won't slow. Something needs to be tweaked with this flight model, I hope!

I've no problem here. I've even tried the five mile final and 180 knots. Sure, I need to have idle thrust a long time after the 5 dme point, but it can still be slowed, especially when I don't maintain 180 until 5 dme.

We do the same in the U.S.

We do? I must have missed that memo. You can't get it to slow, even with the gear down?

We do the same in the U.S. But this plane just won't slow. Put out flaps and it doesn't slow, put out speedbrakes at 1000 feet even and it won't slow. Something needs to be tweaked with this flight model, I hope!

There is nothing wrong with the Flight model. Example you want to slow from 250 to 180 at level flight of 5000 which is easy enough. Set your your speed from 250 to 180 on the MCP and use your speed brakes and you can even use flaps 1 to help. If your descending at say 1800 fpm your obviously not gonna slow down much if at all. It is either descend or slow down but you can't do both at the same time. If your going too fast pull up to bleed off some speed then resume descent. I fly the NGX at Flaps 15 at 180 knots until the outter marker reset the speed to VREF, Landing Gear Down, and as the speed bleeds off the Flaps go from 15 to 25 to 30 and finally 40. Usually land at Flaps 30 if I am not heavy. If the drag from your Landing Gear and Flaps 30 or 40 are not enough to get you to VREF speed by the time you get to the runway your doing something wrong or not setting something right.

I haven't had any issues with the flight model slowing down. In fact, I think it's an amazing one. You also have to figure in real world, they have you at a lower altitude than the glideslope prior to the FAF, so you do have a chance to slow down. For example, in SFO, almost every airplane is asked to do 180KIAS to AXMUL (I've never heard of ANYONE, in LAX or SFO asked to do above 200KIAS), the FAF for ILS 28R. For us in the Brasilia, it's pretty easy. For almost all aircraft, they have us at 2500 way before AXMUL (which is shown with an intercept ALT of 1800). So you are in level flight, and when needed, can begin a slow down (as one person said, 1 to 1.5 miles prior to the fix, or "one dot low". If in level flight, and say (without looking at the speed charts for proper flap/speed settings), 180 KTS with flaps 15, a CONSIDERABLE amount of power is needed to maintain speed and altitude. Flight idle and gear down, once you are one "dot low" while selecting your VRef speed MCP should work just fine. Keep adding flaps to the desired for the selected Vref. The NG has a nice way of showing you speed tolerances :). That should allow you to be "stabilized with req. landing flaps" at or before 1000ft to go. Heck, if all else fails, extend the gear early....a lot of drag comes from that (I don't know speed off the top of my head, but it's somewhere at or above 230KIAS). Downside is extra fuel burn from increased power...but in the end, safety comes first.

These pinned videos about managing airspeed are nice, but they assume you're the only plane out there, and that's why you get to descend at 260 kts and cross the FAF at 160 kts. In the real world of course, ATC often has you at 320 knots on your descent "for spacing," and keeps you at 180 or 190 until five mile final. In these real world conditions, how exactly are you supposed to slow this thing? With a typical 180kts to five mile restriction, I put out full speedbrakes after that to zero effect, and the autopilot likewise can't slow, and I always come in fast. Is there a setting in aircraft.cfg I could change so speedbrakes and/or drag effect can be increased? In the real world of course the 738 will easily pass five mile final at 180 kts then be at 150 or so over the threshold, and they don't need to use speedbrakes.

190 on a five mile final isn't that common. 170 is a lot more likely. You can use speedbrakes all the way through flaps 15 if need be. Also, the landing gear is often referred to as the anchor because it helps slow the plane. Play around wiht it if you're coming in fast, then speed brakes, flight detent, and get the flaps in as soon as possible, and droip the gear honestly whenever. Although you idealy you would drop it at flaps 5 and then immediatly select flaps 15, you don't have to wait, lower it at flaps 1 if you want. The gear has a speed limit of what 250kts during extension? and flaps 1-5 also have a speed limit of 250knts, so if you need to drop from 190kts to 155 for touchdown, lower the gear at flpas 5 and keep the speed brakes up and use flaps 10 to get to 15. Often flaps 1,5,15, and then 30 are the only selections used, but if you need to get to 30 but you're kinda fast, feel free to use 25 first.! I hope this helps! Mitch Bowman

Not with the speedbrake I won't. Shouldn't be used with flaps set to greater than 10 (at least according to the training captain whom I've received instruction from on the Level-D sim). While that may be true for other phases of flight, it doesn't hold up for final. If that were that case, every flight would have to intercept the glide at final approach speed! I get where you're coming from, but this is something entirely different. The long and short of it is, with the flight idle around 40% there is absolutely no way to slow down when on the glideslope, so I have to intercept at pretty close to final app speed. Again, there's no issue at around 30%, the speed bleeds off nicely. I think there's a problem for me there somewhere, be it with NGX, hardware, or ASE.

That's a training ploicy perhaps at that airline. But if you're looking at the speedbrake limitations by the book, you can flt detent them with flaps 15, but not beyond. Mitch Bowman

But this plane just won't slow. Put out flaps and it doesn't slow, put out speedbrakes at 1000 feet even and it won't slow. Something needs to be tweaked with this flight model, I hope!

I utterly disagree. Like the others, I have had no issue at all slowing down. Speedbrakes work well, and more than enough drag from flaps and gear to slow in time.

there lies your problem, a light aircraft will struggle to slow down more

Actually it's other way around. Namely that a heavier aircraft won't slow as quickly simply because it has more inetria. A lighter aircraft should slow quicker. Martin Wilby.

Hi to all,I agree with Paul and others: the flight model is CORRECTED (and in this case is AMAZING giving you the same sensationas and slowing down time I've experienced in a real fixed base training b737 sim) the real plane is really VERY DIFFICULT to slow down, you have sometimes to "play" with speedbrakes, landing gear (early lowering) ecc. to comply with speed restrictions etc, you've to think ahead!!! I got two session in a real (fixed) sim and (but I was lucky not having to comply with ATC), as usual, during preflight I programmed into FMC some hard constrains regarding speed that after I use as "gate" to check my position/altitude vs. speed: if I see something not "in the box" I i.e. disengage VNAV by using others vertical modes i.e. FL/CHG regulating speed, speedbrake etc, or V/S etc. especially if you've tailwind is very important monitoring your speed vs. altitude and distance!!! (i.e. if I've to approach to rwy 35L at Malpensa=LIMC via Vercelli (VERCE) and Novara (NOV) in spite of charts estabilished only a soft constrains over VERCE "4000A" (the same for NOV) I usually programmed VERCE at "210/6000" (or 210/6000B) and NOV at 180/4000 and use Verce constrains as "gate" to check my descent i.e. during the flight I realized I was arriving to VERCE fast and high so I used a lot of speedbrake, speed intervention fl chg etc. and arrived over verce almost perfectly at 210/6000 and succed in arriving over NOV (just intercepted the LOC) at flaps 5 180 kts then (w/o restriction by ATC) usually with G/S indicator 1 dot up I lower the gear and flaps 15 160 kts that I mantain till the O. marker (noise abatement/fuel saving) and after final speed and flaps configuration.But the most important thing: I've to THINK AHEAD to slow down this bird...I remember two week ago during my first single engine approach I couldn't remember the N1% speed matching me the correct value to mantain Vref15+5/10 (I was about 54,5 tons +3,2 tons of fuel so let's say 58 tons and Vref15 was 147 kts, so I thought to approach at 155 kts) I confused myself with B767 and I believed the correct value were about 74% N1 so during the slow down after having intercepted the glide flaps 15 etc I realized to be a little fast just about 190 kts but I mantained 60-65% N1 ..but the bied was difficult to slow down....I realized I was wrong (the correct value to descent onto a 3° slope ILS in such conition was about 68-69%) just 500 ft AGL I was still about 170 kts and touched down at about 165 kts but with a bounced landing...and , wrost, with a roll rate that I had to suddenly compensate...just at the second touchdown I landed....Best RegardsAndrea Buono.

Why is flight idle 40%> - is there a way to reduce this (rw)?

Why is flight idle 40%> - is there a way to reduce this (rw)?

Flight idle is that high during approach to:1. make up for all the drag you add with gear and flaps, to prevent a situation where your speed would drop too fast, and2. to ensure that the engines spool up faster in case of a go around.

Flight Idle is different during various phases of flight. If your descending from Cruise 40 percent range sounds about right. It is not gonna go down to 21 percent like on the ground. Not sure if this is correct but I believe on descent the air getting pushed into the turbines keeps the turbines running faster, thus you idle speed is in the 40s. Hey I just thought of something. For the Op that was having problems slowing down. Is your throttle calibrated properly? If there is a problem with the throttle and it is not going all way back to idle position then that would probably make it difficult to slow down.