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jakov

Dealing with ATC

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Hi, everyone! After quite a long time sailing virtual skies I decided that it would be prudent to learn how to properly create a flightplan. Until now I was using software Wilco/FeelThere PIC 737 and I didn't have a need for learning how to create a flightplan in FMC or to use SID and STARS and so on. Now, though, the new NGX is out and I really want to fly this bird properly. When you create a flightplan in FSX and then use it to make a flightplan by manually inserting waypoints in the FMC, you should get a flightplan that ATC will follow. The problem is that ATC does not understand STARS, for instance, so it gives you instructions that you will obviusly not follow and then ATC gets annoyed ("please expedite your turn to ....). So, the question is How do you fly a fully programmed NGX flightplan and still work with FSX ATC? Also, in every tutorial that I've read the pilot already knows the arrival runway and STAR. In FSX IFR you don't know that. Also, I am always guessing SID's as well, considering that there are sometimes more than one SID's going to the same waypoint. Thanks for the help! Jakov Jandric

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There are quite a few options: 1) You totally ignore ATC!2) You ignore ATC and use it only for clearance, taxiing from gate to runway, takeoff clearance. Then forget it exists till right before landing (landing clearance and taxi to the gate.2) You follow whatever it says, although in 99.9% of the times it'll vector you to do HUGE circles before landing and in many cases you'll end up being quite high... Of course this is good practicing to learn how to follow ATC vectoring.3) Search, read, analyse carefully and (if you think it's worth the money) buy an ATC addon like RadarContact, PFE, VoxATC or whatever else you may find that I'm not aware of. Have never tried any of these so I cannot comment. IMO these things are no worth the money and time to learn as, although better than default ATC, are still way too standardised...4) Fly online on IVAO or VATSIM. It's the most realistic option. Never tried as I do not have so much htime to commit in FS (it's not nice not to complete online flights) and I'm also afraid I'll screw things up as I do not have time to learn some basic things (like proper ATC phrasing). The choice is yours mate!

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If ATC get annoyed with you, you could always try the good old: 'say ag....n your l..st transmiss... Denver, ou are breaki.. up' trick Al

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How do you fly a fully programmed NGX flightplan and still work with FSX ATC?
The short answer is that with the default FSX ATC, you can't. The alternatives are VATSIM or an add-on like Radar Contact, which is a major improvement. You will, however, need an external flightplanner such as FSBuild to create the flightplans that you then load into RC. regards,

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2) You ignore ATC and use it only for clearance, taxiing from gate to runway, takeoff clearance. Then forget it exists till right before landing (landing clearance and taxi to the gate.
If you do that, ATC will cancel you IFR, so you'll have to basically fly VFR to your destination. And if the weather is IFR, it won't let you land. So you either fly all the way with ATC, or you don't. And as far as SIDs and STARs are concerned, SIDs don't exist to ATC. It will route you to your first fix after takeoff. STARs on the other hand, exist. ATC will give you vectors to final. The problem is that ATC doesn't use any real STARs, so you never know what he'll do next. I've flown with the NGX with FSX ATC, and it went ok... You have to remember to start you descent before you get to T/D, because if you wait for ATC to tell you to descend, you'll be arriving high.

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If you do that, ATC will cancel you IFR, so you'll have to basically fly VFR to your destination. And if the weather is IFR, it won't let you land. So you either fly all the way with ATC, or you don't.
Not really. You just need to confirm that you follow his instructions, but never do so. He keeps repeating his instructions every minute or so, but IMO it's better to just ignore him and fly properly than do these 100-mile circles...

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I do admit that FSX ATC is not very efficient. What it will try to do is put you on approach at about 15-20 DME, which doesn't work well every time, especially if you're flying a GA aircraft and it takes you 30 minutes to intercept the glideslope. This comes from the fact that FSX developers programmed a general STAR and approach route, and let FSX apply it to all airports. Either way... I try to stay away from FSX ATC... It doesn't help at all with the experience. Especially when you get bounced back and forth from one frequency to another because you're flying on an airspace boundary.

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Thanks for all the info! I'll see what I'll do next, but for now it seems that I'll just ignore ATC and then when I'll have time to learn basics, start to fly online. You guys were very helpful! Cheers!

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I do like this:- use routefinder (for the route plan) and simroutes.net to generate the route for FS (if necessary, usually I introduce it manually, I am not sure if for PMDG NGX can be imported)- use FSX ATC after I imported the plan, all the way, except approach indications (here only the runway clearance is what I need, then I use charts and program FMC accordingly)- during descent, I ask ATC for altitude decrease in order to match with my flight plan (anyway, my flight plan is important that's why, like it was said above, some ATC indications can be ignored)

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1) You totally ignore ATC!
I quote you. The idiot who programmed FSX ATC is still unknown, the reason is that otherwise he would have been heavily insulted and hit by bilions of flight simmers all around the world. Told that, I am still looking to spot him after years, so the hunt is not over yet. P.S: it is also rumored that MS Flight won't have an ATC by the way.

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If ATC get annoyed with you, you could always try the good old: 'say ag....n your l..st transmiss... Denver, ou are breaki.. up' trick Al
hahahaha.... sorry, tunnel. Back on topic, if you're not yet ready for online flying - which beats anything else- try RC04, Radar contact. It's easy to learn and very flexible. It lets you fly sids and stars. I've heard great things about Voxatc too, but never used it, so can't recommend. For runways in use you can look up weatther conditions at the airport of destinations and from there choose your runway. If you ever fly to Amsterdam, you can look it up at this site. http://www.luchtverkeersleiding.nl/frameset.php?source=baan_actueel It tells you which RWYs are in use. (click on the pic to see the corresponding designators) Don't know if other Airports have that though.

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You can safely ignore FSX ATC without fear of a FP cancellation or have to listen to it if you simply wait until a handoff. Accept the handoff but do not make contact with the new controller. Simple.

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The idiot who programmed FSX ATC is still unknown, the reason is that otherwise he would have been heavily insulted and hit by bilions of flight simmers all around the world.
Must be the same idiot who programmed FS9 aswell then :-)

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Honestly, RC4 is ok as ATC vectoring but personally I don't like that robotized voice.. I don't remember if RC4 is using more ressources or has an impact on FS performance.

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Honestly, RC4 is ok as ATC vectoring but personally I don't like that robotized voice.. I don't remember if RC4 is using more ressources or has an impact on FS performance.
Well, RC5 is in the works. RC4.3 is the best option until then, apart from online flying.Trevor Moore

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Well, RC5 is in the works. RC4.3 is the best option until then, apart from online flying. Trevor Moore
I use RC every time I want to fly a plan and have ATC the whole way. Vatsim is ok when ATC is actualy available.

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...Vatsim is ok when ATC is actualy available.
Exactly. IF you decided right now that you want to fly from Pulkovo (ULLI), where only ground is available, to Dallas Fort Worth (KDFW), where only tower is available, Vatsim is great. (At least now. If you want Pulkovo later tonight, no guarantees. LOL.gif ) Trevor Moore

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I use FSBuild. It will create a route in both PMDG and FSX formats at the same time. After aircraft selection, I will load the flighplan into FSX. I then will load the flightplan into the CDU (using company route LSK) or enter manually if not too long. FSX ATC will then allow you to fly the plan as entered except near the destination where it will insist on giving you vectors. FSX ATC will of course override any altitude restrictions in the SID or STAR but I guess this happens in real life too.

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I use FSBuild. It will create a route in both PMDG and FSX formats at the same time. After aircraft selection, I will load the flighplan into FSX. I then will load the flightplan into the CDU (using company route LSK) or enter manually if not too long. FSX ATC will then allow you to fly the plan as entered except near the destination where it will insist on giving you vectors. FSX ATC will of course override any altitude restrictions in the SID or STAR but I guess this happens in real life too.
FSX is not "overriding" any altitude restrictions. All it sees is your flight plan in the plan view (i.e., lateral point to point), together with your cruise altitude. It assigns vectors as you approach the destination in order to place you on an approximately 30 degree offset to the runway track for the assigned runway. This is regardless, as you said, of any SID you have programmed. To see the stupidity of the programming in action, use default FSX ATC on a flight to RWY08 at Innsbruck (LOWI). It's doable (FSX won't fly you into a mountain like FS2004 would), but be prepared to descend like a falling rock. Your passengers will not be pleased.Trevor Moore

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I was in the same boat (plane) as the origonal poster with regards to ATC. I purchased Radar Contact and have flown online in VATSIM. Radar Contact is quite good and i have it setup nicely now. Sometimes i'm to drunk and miss some calls but it seems like it was designed for dumb people and drunk people because it gives you the option to just go to any way-point within your flight plan.

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I was in the same boat (plane) as the origonal poster with regards to ATC. I purchased Radar Contact and have flown online in VATSIM. Radar Contact is quite good and i have it setup nicely now. Sometimes i'm to drunk and miss some calls but it seems like it was designed for dumb people and drunk people because it gives you the option to just go to any way-point within your flight plan.
LMAO.gif

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FSX is not "overriding" any altitude restrictions. All it sees is your flight plan in the plan view (i.e., lateral point to point), together with your cruise altitude. It assigns vectors as you approach the destination in order to place you on an approximately 30 degree offset to the runway track for the assigned runway. This is regardless, as you said, of any SID you have programmed. To see the stupidity of the programming in action, use default FSX ATC on a flight to RWY08 at Innsbruck (LOWI). It's doable (FSX won't fly you into a mountain like FS2004 would), but be prepared to descend like a falling rock. Your passengers will not be pleased. Trevor Moore
Overriding, "not seeing", ignoring - whatever you want to call the limited functionality of the FSX ATC system is irrelevant. The original poster was asking how to best fit the NGX into the FSX ATC system and I offered my way of doing so. No more ATC directed turns to get back on course.

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