Yet people like Larry Adamson feel the need to post sky and cloud screenshots from FSX in these forums and say that X Planes clouds now look like mashed potatoes and the FSX clouds look better.

I'm not the one, that came up with the "mashed potatoe" comparison. The term has been used numerous times for the last day or so, on different forums. It's just that I ran FSX today with real weather.................and made the comparison in my own mind. I don't think the beta 10's clouds are looking anywhere as good as my default FSX does. And while numerous XP10 users are complaining about beta 10's lousey new clouds, and the removal of cloud sliders, there are others that are writing about the greatness of XP clouds compared to FSX, just today. Kind of gets confusing...

I think it interesting that pointing out something FSX does better than X-Plane 10 is "defensive about FSX".Have you ever considered... they're looking for X-Plane to do at least as well, if not better? Especially for the increased price??Neither sim wins the flight dynamics argument. Each has it's strengths and weaknesses. So... that leaves things such as scenery, graphics... etc.If people who own FSX are looking at X-Plane and expect more... I really don't see how that's being "defensive about FSX." I really don't.

That's a brilliant spin on what I was trying to say, Ed!Yet you completely failed to see what I was saying and instead opted to misinterpret everything about my post. In no uncertain terms, I said..."Just the same way another FSX developer said he will ALWAYS defend FSX in these forums if someone criticizes it."

That's a brilliant spin on what I was trying to say, Ed!Yet you completely failed to see what I was saying and instead opted to misinterpret everything about my post. In no uncertain terms, I said..."Just the same way another FSX developer said he will ALWAYS defend FSX in these forums if someone criticizes it."

Spin?? Maybe you should re-read your own post??? I responded to this statement:

It seems FSX users are totally excused for getting defensive about FSX in the x plane forums, but X Plane users are not excused for defending x plane in an x plane forum.

Oh... and just so it's crystal clear... 'spin' is when you misdirect a question with a response that appears to be 'on-topic' but in reality diverts attention away from the question. Kinda like your response to my post. :(

Ok Ed.and...Ok Ed.It just seems you want an argument. Find it elsewhere.

What I want is for X-Plane to offer as much if not more than what FSX offers. Especially for the additional $30. Are you saying that's unfair?

Now cmon Ed! What you really want is XPX to curl up and die. [why do I say that? It's because of all your other posts, none in any shape or form with anything positive to say about xplane] Now it is being seen as real competion to FSX it's obviously beginning to be a worry for some.It is very different from what many are used to, no question about that, but instead of accepting that it is different and learning the new procedures, some seem to want the MS way of doing things.Thankfully it isn't going to happen.I might also add that for many it already offers more than FSX has ever offered.

Edited January 9, 201214 yr by jasonX

+1

Now cmon Ed! What you really want is XPX to curl up and die. [why do I say that? It's because of all your other posts, none in any shape or form with anything positive to say about xplane] Now it is being seen as real competion to FSX it's obviously beginning to be a worry for some.

A worry for whom? Microsoft?? That's about the only group I can think of being "competition" with X-Plane... third party developers have nothing to fear, seriously. They simply provide enhancements, no more, no less. Also, while many will migrate to X-Plane... don't expect to gain all the FS community. That's so seriously unlikely... it would be like expecting everyone from X-Plane to move to FSX if LR were to close their doors tomorrow. Ain't gonna happen. I doubt even the majority of FSX users will migrate to X-Plane. The reasons, however, have more to do with:1. Expecting reasonable flight models in default aircraft.2. Expecting scenery that actually resembles a given area.3. Expecting a UI that's user friendly.4. Expecting people to stop telling them how superior X-Plane is/was.5. Expecting people to stop telling them how inferior FS is/was.As for what I want... I want to continue to enjoy flight simming. I want my purchase to hold value. I want the things I listed above. Apparently that's me wanting X-Plane to die. :(

It is very different from what many are used to, no question about that, but instead of accepting that it is different and learning the new procedures, some seem to want the MS way of doing things. Thankfully it isn't going to happen.

Ah, so you think FS user expectations regarding product features in X-Plane are simply "different"?? Expecting the same level of features with perhaps a bit more for that extra $30 is the "MS way of doing things"?

I might also add that for many it already offers more than FSX has ever offered.

Fair opinion.

+1

As for what I want... I want to continue to enjoy flight simming. I want my purchase to hold value. I want the things I listed above. Apparently that's me wanting X-Plane to die.

I want X-plane to LIVE UPTO IT'S HYPE - AND, HOPEFULLY, ACHIEVE A GOO PORTION OF IT'S POTENTIAL.

Ok I wasn't going to answer but I will as honest as I can

A worry for whom? Microsoft?? That's about the only group I can think of being "competition" with X-Plane... third party developers have nothing to fear, seriously. They simply provide enhancements, no more, no less. Also, while many will migrate to X-Plane... don't expect to gain all the FS community. That's so seriously unlikely... it would be like expecting everyone from X-Plane to move to FSX if LR were to close their doors tomorrow. Ain't gonna happen. I doubt even the majority of FSX users will migrate to X-Plane. The reasons, however, have more to do with:--> I was referring to some FSX users, not devs or MS1. Expecting reasonable flight models in default aircraft.--> Sure I agree there needs to be improvement here, but myself, and I suspect most others rarely fly the default but it is an issue that needs to be addressed.2. Expecting scenery that actually resembles a given area.--> You know the topography is really good. I actually followed the roads and found where I used to live (UK). The hills, roads, railways lakes etc were all there in the right places. The Seychelles Islands actually look like the Seychelles. It does need populating tho with landmark buildings etc;. Also landclass areas are in need of improving and towns do indeed need to look like towns. This will come. They are very well aware of these things.3. Expecting a UI that's user friendly.--> I have heard this before but fail to understand it. I can't find any issues with it.4. Expecting people to stop telling them how superior X-Plane is/was.--> The only voices I have heard here are FSX users telling us how bad everything is and constantly criticising every aspect of xplane they can find. If we defend our sim of choice, ie Xplane, we get accused of the above plus lots more things.5. Expecting people to stop telling them how inferior FS is/was.--> Sorry I haven't seen any posts along those linesAs for what I want... I want to continue to enjoy flight simming. I want my purchase to hold value. I want the things I listed above. Apparently that's me wanting X-Plane to die. :(--> I would think we all want those things, that's something we can agree on.Ah, so you think FS user expectations regarding product features in X-Plane are simply "different"?? Expecting the same level of features with perhaps a bit more for that extra $30 is the "MS way of doing things"?--> You misunderstand me here. I was referring to the way Xplane is produced and regularly updated until done. It's an unusual procedure but it works. If anyone does not like this. Xplane 9 is complete and is a fine simulator.Fair opinion.

Regards

Edited January 9, 201214 yr by jasonX

Guy's, this is getting pathetic. You are judging a product that was assembled for the first time a few weeks ago,was released 2 weeks later without hardly any testing. I'm surprised it it even launched the first time! Yea, that was a stupid idea,but, as always it will get ALOT better real soon. I'm a developer for over a decade, and I haven't even ordered v10 yet!That should tell you how relaxed us old timers are about v10 at this point!Now start facing the facts instead:- Flight has been doomed to a game before it even started. MS has closed the door on 3rd party developers.- P3D has been tied on hands and feet by MS, priced out of the market AND has been dumped by PMDG.- FSX will most likely be dead within 2-3 years for a number technical and industry political reasons.- Aerofly is way too limited and has years to go still to become a candidate.So yes, the way things look right now I'd say X-Plane has a very bright future - like it or not!M

Edited January 9, 201214 yr by MortenM

Guy's, this is getting pathetic. You are judging a product that was on final assembly a few weeks agowas released 2 weeks later without hardly any testing. I'm surprised it it even launched the first time! Yea, that was a stupid idea,but, as always it will get ALOT better real soon. I'm a developer for over a decade, and I haven't even ordered v10 yet!That should tell you how relaxed us old timers are about v10 at this point!Now start facing the facts instead:- Flight has been doomed to a game before it even started. MS has closed the door on 3rd party developers.- P3D has been tied on hands and feet by MS, priced out of the market AND has been dumped by PMDG.- FSX will most likely be dead within 2-3 years for a number technical and industry political reasons.- Aerofly is way too limited and has years to go still to become a candidate.So yes, the way things look right now I'd say X-Plane has a very bright future - like it or not!M

right, Morten.X-plane pilots are used to "see the potential and anticipate the progress", while someone viewing the sim for the first time will likely point out where is lacks. And I say: Rightfully so. Because the Betas really DO lack in major key areas that set version 10 apart from previous version. I wouldn't even know where to start calling out the issues after using it since my Aerosoft version had arrived before x-mas.But having lived through the painful process with version 8 or 9 (me. some even older versions) the x-Plane pilots know what to expect from the beta cycle. They focus on the potential, just like Flightime does on this recent blog post: http://xplane10.wordpress.com/2012/01/09/xp10reviews-9-1-12-thoughts-on-xp10s-plausible-world/The big question is: How long will it take Laminar to adress the most urgent issues? I'm patient. But not overly patient.

- P3D has been tied on hands and feet by MS, priced out of the market AND has been dumped by PMDG.

Is it true that PMDG has completely abandoned P3D? Haven´t been on the forum for a couple of days, and might have missed something...

Wow... it's like being in grade school again... this is the school lunch... eat it and shut up!I want better than what X-Plane's offering... I won't purchase a beta... if X-Plane wants more FS people to switch... might really want to listen to what we have to say instead of dismissing us. Of course... if you don't want more FS people to switch, that's ok... just say so... and I suspect most of us will be happy to leave X-Plane at it's current level of "almost-was".Oh, and the statement regarding Prepar3D.... not even close to accurate. Prepar3D is not owned by Microsoft. Microsoft has no legal control over it. The only restriction is that L-M can not provide a game/entertainment product from the source of ESP. That's it.

Wow... it's like being in grade school again... this is the school lunch... eat it and shut up!I want better than what X-Plane's offering... I won't purchase a beta... if X-Plane wants more FS people to switch... might really want to listen to what we have to say instead of dismissing us. Of course... if you don't want more FS people to switch, that's ok... just say so... and I suspect most of us will be happy to leave X-Plane at it's current level of "almost-was".Oh, and the statement regarding Prepar3D.... not even close to accurate. Prepar3D is not owned by Microsoft. Microsoft has no legal control over it. The only restriction is that L-M can not provide a game/entertainment product from the source of ESP. That's it.

Why don't you email Austin with your thoughts or demands. You can also visit the developers blog! Posting your complaints on this forum is futile! Your just trolling at this point!