Pull the Plug on the FLIGHT Forum.

[jtmedina 0]

It's amazing how much hate and elitism I have to see everywhere not just here. People seem to be able to make conclusion based on a few videos played with arcade settings. People seem to have forgotten that FSX can be played as an arcade too with icons on, simplified flight model, MISSIONS and other things even use the mouse to control the planeI am the lucky one who had been able to try MS Flight. I can't say much(or I'd be banned) but when this sim is released people will see that MS Flight is as arcade as FSX stock planes + sceneries could be.Sadly, apparently everywhere what prevails is the smooth bullying, insult, discrediting, the lack of deep thinking and analysis but just biasing about a few poorly made videos.From what I have seen. Flight has a lot to give to both casuals and experience simmers because like with ANY piece of software it can be customized and adapted and MS Flight won't be the exception.I remember when FSX was about to come out and people saw the first trailer. That was the same old story everywhere. it seems part of the human nature but eventually FSX evolved and became what it's now.Other simulation companies are adopting same business model, giving the game for free and after that you are free to buy new planes, maps etc for a relatively low price because as game development(including simulators) is getting more and more expensive to produce given the small market simmers represents, it's the only way to survive. I guess this story will keep going and going until MS Flight is released and it will definitely shut some mouths. Because I have to say, how sad this whole things is you are showing the worst of yourselves.Oh I am a hardcore simmer too. Fly all kind of simulators, Falcon in all its flavors, IL2, DCS series, Silent Hunter, Flaming Cliffs, Rise of Flight, AeroflyFS and of course Flight Simulator and it's been my hobby since a was a kid.Something to think about :(

Edited January 15, 2012 by jtmedina

[garsands 0]

Thats what happened as soon as these greedy 3rd party Dev's. knew they were out of luck..

Don't tar with the same brush all of the 3PD's. A lot do make software just for beer money or to cover the cost of getting plans & such.I only mentioned ONE 3PD as that was the only one that I had FACT's to back up my claims.Also some 3PD sell far more software then other's.

[Attila 2]

It's amazing how much hate and elitism I have to see everywhere not just here. People seem to be able to make conclusion based on a few videos played with arcade settings. People seem to have forgotten that FSX can be played as an arcade too with icons on, simplified flight model, MISSIONS and other things even use the mouse to control the planeI am the lucky one who had been able to try MS Flight. I can't say much(or I'd be banned) but when this sim is released people will see that MS Flight is as arcade as FSX stock planes + sceneries could be.Sadly, apparently everywhere what prevails is the smooth bullying, insult, discrediting, the lack of deep thinking and analysis but just biasing about a few poorly made videos.

e·lit·ismnoun1. practice of or belief in rule by an elite.2. consciousness of or pride in belonging to a select or favored group.Guess which group of people are guilty of this. Just read your second paragraph.Furthermore, there is plenty more information available than a "few poorly made videos".Some of the worst insults and bullying are from people who think they are "in the know". Just look at some of the single sentence quips all over the board.Deep thinking and analysis is not the sovereign domain of those who are in the beta, regardless of what they think they know. They know as much as MS is telling them and we know what that has been worth during the last year or so.

[jtmedina 0]

e·lit·ismnoun1. practice of or belief in rule by an elite.2. consciousness of or pride in belonging to a select or favored group.Guess which group of people are guilty of this. Just read your second paragraph.Furthermore, there is plenty more information available than a "few poorly made videos".Some of the worst insults and bullying are from people who think they are "in the know". Just look at some of the single sentence quips all over the board.Deep thinking and analysis is not the sovereign domain of those who are in the beta, regardless of what they think they know. They know as much as MS is telling them and we know what that has been worth during the last year or so.

Pure Madness. Read the title of this thread....From the videos you have seen or read about you can know nothing.Don't worry they day of release will be soon and people will see for themselves... Edited January 15, 2012 by jtmedina

[torium 207]

I remember when FSX was about to come out and people saw the first trailer. That was the same old story everywhere. it seems part of the human nature but eventually FSX evolved and became what it's now.

Yes, I remember!

From what I have seen. Flight has a lot to give to both casuals and experience simmers because like with ANY piece of software it can be customized and adapted and MS Flight won't be the exception.

Thanks for your opinion. I believe you. :(

[ahuimanu 50]

Until we are able to give Flight a test flight (after it is released), none of us will know whether Flight is just an arcade game, or a decent flight simulator.

While what you are saying has merit, trust your instincts.

[ahuimanu 50]

Flight has a lot to give to both casuals and experience simmers because like with ANY piece of software it can be customized and adapted and MS Flight won't be the exception.

I will give you one simple and refutative counter-argument: there is no evidence that FLIGHT will have an openly available SDK. If you do have evidence to the contrary, please share it. Most of us DO NOT CARE if there are game-oriented activities such as level-ups and gold coins, we just want to fly our add-ons in free-flight mode and simulate flight. Without an SDK, we'll be trapped in Microsoft's world entirely.For most of us, we end up replacing, enhancing, and augmenting the default as quick as we can. Even if Microsoft does content through their own professional 3rd party contacts, who will probably produce capable material, not having an SDK for the end-user to become a hobbyist developer is a mistake and constitutes the "death-knell" that many of us are bemoaning.

[Arwen 289]

While what you are saying has merit, trust your instincts.

I do trust my instincts . . . it was my emotions that were getting in the way. For the past week or so I've been saying that Flight might just surprise a lot of people here . . . that is what my instincts have been screaming at me.Plus, once I got my emotions back under control and had time to think this through, I think I have a pretty good idea where MS is trying to head with Flight.The big question mark for me is how long we have to wait for Flight (and its available DLC) to get to where the majority of the flight simming community will begin to support it.MS is taking a big gamble with the way that it is marketing Flight and in how the success of this product hinges on enough users buying enough DLC.

[fly_a_mig17 0]

You know. I'm thinking, this is a website for enthusiasts who have dedicated thousands of hours to this hobby and to each other. No, we don't always get along, but that's because each of us is passionate in our own way, and that is because we LOVE our hobby. We have the full gamut of skill levels here, from those who are experiencing a flight simulator for the first time and have never been in a real airplane, to 25,000 hour 747 and 777 captains. Over the last 25 years, there have been literally thousands of video games released from PAC MAN to Battlefield 3, and this community of simulator fans remain loyal to this nerdy, niche hobby. At places like Avsim we swap flight stories, spin tall tales, give help to those who want to be a part of those with their eyes turned toward the sky. We marvel at the level of flight simulation power that we spend our hard earned money to replicate. We marvel at the complex work of art that is the PMDG 737NG or the LDS 767. We lose ourselves in the complexity of airports by FSDream Team and Fly Tampa. We tweak, and tweak, so to get that perfect flight where the sun meets us in the morning sky as we begin our descent into London Heathrow after a flight from JFK the night before. And we are all addicted to that rush of satisfaction when we plant our Cessna 172 or Boeing 777, center line, in a way that would make any flight instructor or check airman proud. This is who we are. This is what we do.The motto of Avsim is: "Where Flight Simulation Enthusiasts Gather from Around the World!" Well I say, don't dignify FLIGHT by giving it its own forum here at Avsim. Obviously WE are not the type of people that Microsoft is interested in. In my opinion not another second should be wasted giving Flight the slightest consideration. Let's get back to supporting companies that want to support this community. Let's get back to figuring out how we can keep this community growing and attracting talent to spend their time making our world more realistic for both the new and pro simmer alike. I'd be damned if I spend one cent on FLIGHT when that money would be better served as a donation to Avsim or helping to support a 3rd party developer to keep them in the community.As far as I know, we don't have a Battle Field 3 Forum. We don't have an XBOX Forum. We don't have a World of Warcraft Forum. I submit we don't need a FLIGHT forum either. Let the gaming sites take over Flight chat so the 12 year old gamers can decide on what's the best way to get all the bonus coins floating over Waikiki Beach. Dare I say the word? BOYCOTT? Yep, I dared. BOYCOTT FLIGHT!

+1

[JasonD210 0]

I think it's important to oppose Flight on what we know now. No freeware, and no independant add-ons -- this is just not acceptable, not just in Flight, but in any simulation platform. If it changes in the future, all well and good, but right now, it's not good. Even Blizzard allow freeware add-ons in their World of Warcraft. So it's important to send a firm message back to any company that tries this.It reminds me of a "game" called Silent Hunter 5, which introduced a DRM system that required and constant online connection even for single player. That was another thing that people found to be unaccaptable. There were other things wrong with the game too. The Silent Hunter 5 was more of an arcade game than the previous versions, which were more like simulators. The new version also lacked much of the functionality that earlier versions of the franchaise had. But the DRM system was the worst aspect. After a year of protests, complaints, bad reviews and bad publicity in general, the DRM system was removed. Patches improved the game, and most importantly, Ubisoft have always allowed for "mods" so the loyal supporters of Silent Hunter 5 have been able to enhance the simulation aspect. Today it's a decent simulator.However, I see Tom's point. It would be rash to close the Flight forum. I advocate that it be renamed The Microsoft "Flight" Game instead of what it is now... :Party:Also, I think that we should not allow ourselves to be so impressed by Microsoft. It seems many people are in awe of that corporation, as if they are some kind of authority in Flight Simulation. Let's lose that idea. Microsoft were once leaders in popular Flight Simulation technology, but those days are gone. If you want to sum up Microsoft, just think back to when they first brought out the Zune, in a pathetic attempt to copy the iPod. That's M$ in a nutshell. It's as Steve Jobs once said - "they put no culture into their products". Flight is shaped from market research and analysis, not from one man's vision and passion. It's reverse engineering of sorts.I have never been a fan of X-plane, but one good thing about it is that at least it stems from a man with a vision, and a passion.It's like the difference between a good movie and a bad movie.

Edited January 16, 2012 by JasonD210

[spilok 1,139]

All those people who hate Brussel Sprouts obviously don't know how to cook them.......put 2 + 2 together, and you'll get my message.Stan

[FSMP 95]

PLEASE - PLEASE -- PLEASE do NOT close this Flight Forum.It is a very worthwile place, and provides a great service to the majority of Flight Sim Community..By keeping this Forum open, it "Concentrates" all the useless Speculaion, Anger and Hostility in one place, and stops it spreading and polluting other forums.

Edited January 16, 2012 by FSMP

[JS47 0]

I had a dream one night where I looked into the sky and wished I could fly. The next night I had a nightmare where I looked into the sky and saw giant spinning coins.I am also dissapointed that Microcrap is not putting Fl(*&T onto a cd. How am I supposed to break it into little pieces and mail it back to them? Maybe I can print this entire forum and mail that to them...like they care anyway!Once Fl&*$T, no i will not even use the name, is released let's ditch this forum.

[Kimo 14]

Why pull the plug? If you're so unhappy don't visit the flight forums. Easy as that.

[JasonD210 0]

 

No one is going to hurt MS's feelings. believe me. They are very resilient.

I'm glad you said that - it's significant. The reason MS's feelings won't get hurt is because MS is a corporation that doesn't have feelings. This is very different to a small company of developers who put their heart into what they are doing, and believe in their product. The funny thing is, developers who do that tend to come out on top....rather than get hurt.