Consider what MS' goal appears to be and consider that if they achieve it, that sites like AVSIM will be irrelevant for all but the hardcore. It's not just about the demise or deminshment of third party suppliers as a result of FLIGHT. It is also about the numerous communities like AVSIM that will suffer from "new blood" going elsewhere.

Today I am an X-Plane User, but it was Fly! that got me hooked with Flight sims. I not only discovered the sim, I also discovered a huge crowd of people sharing the same passion. Not only that, but also sharing their time: Making add-ons, distributing them, discussing stuff etc. Whatever sim people use, that is at the bottom of it all. Be it x-plane.org or avsim.com, online web sites like those also live from this market and community around the sims. Freeare attracts users, the users bring online traffic, and developers bring in their ads. From A to Z this is the model "around the sims" that we all enjoy, embrace and have come to expect. We fly together on Ivao, Vatsim or build our businesses in FSEconomy - whatever sim the individual uses. X-Planers even use converted MSFS sceneries.FLIGHT is potentially going to transform all of that.If todays two statements remain true…a. that our freeware culture has no place in FLIGHTb. that 3rd party developers have no place in FLIGHT…then this will directly affect this kind of community that we all are passionate about. Not immediately, as there is still a lively free- and payware market around FS9/X, but NEW people will use NEW software - i.e. Flight, AeroflyFS, X-Plane 10But XP10 does not yet have the market strength to hold together all that that has evolved in the last two decades. People are very hesitant to use a very different sim. Lockhead Martin's route is partially unknown - obviously they are not consumer oriented.I perfectly understand Toms worries and share them.

Great post mike!Just replace it with an "unofficial" Project Tupolev support forum! :(

Me too Bert... +1

And another one. I don't hold hope, but I'll wait for a full, released verison to hit my computer before I completely write it off.

If the OP and others are not interested in Flight then I'm not going to bother to ask them to stay in this forum. However I don't see why I and other like minded people should lose a place in which to discuss Flight just because others do not like it.

"EWW NO, I HATE BRUSSEL SPROUTS MUM!!! THEIR DISGUSTING!!! YUCK!""Just try one dear, you can never know unless you try them!""FINE, BUT I KNOW I HATE THEM I HAD THEM BEFORE!"*Cautiously, the fork approaches your mouth, your face shows you are disgusted* *nom nom*"OMG THESE ARE LUSH!"Do I have to say Flight will make you big and strong when your even older? Please.

I eat sprouts only at christmas dinner. I am 44 years old and I have always hated them. But I still eat them at christmas because they are part of tradition. They also make everything else on the plate taste so much better in comparison. By the same token, maybe this microfail flight home arcade game might make us all appreciate the other offerings.I understand the sentiments of the OP and others, but lets not go down the censorship route. I need somewhere to vent my spleen, maybe even somewhere to eat my words.

I eat sprouts only at christmas dinner.

I can feel your pain but usually I don't let any tragedy interfere with Xmas dinner.Sprouts are feared among all the world, we should prevent this from happening again.

A year from now instead of questions like "how do I prevent floating on landing" we may have a forum full of questions like "hey how do I kill the level 14 teradactyl over Waikiki without missing the third bonus coin?"

That almost made me spray coffee over my keyboard.. :LMAO:EDIT: Spelling.

Edited January 5, 201214 yr by Swe_Richard

With the hit Flight is taking on its Facebook page (its nasty!) I dont think it matters what we say in this forum or if it stays on AVSIM or not.

More negativity... The more people in the hobby the better it will be for all of us. Let's say 10,000 people download the free version, 1,000 hate it and delete it, never to think about flight sim again, a further 5,000 download use for a week then delete and 4,000 people download, think wow this is good but i want more, they google flight sim and end up here, they then discover Rise of Flight, DCS, FSX and the high level addons. It's good news people.

More negativity...The more people in the hobby the better it will be for all of us. Let's say 10,000 people download the free version, 1,000 hate it and delete it, never to think about flight sim again, a further 5,000 download use for a week then delete and 4,000 people download, think wow this is good but i want more, they google flight sim and end up here, they then discover Rise of Flight, DCS, FSX and the high level addons.It's good news people.

10,000 people will download this, hate it, burn their computer and move to montana and become a hermit because they are so traumatized by MS pilotwings

10,000 people will download this, hate it, burn their computer and move to montana and become a hermit because they are so traumatized by MS pilotwings

Lol i'll take that...I got 'into' flight simming via F/A18 Interceptor on the Amiga, or perhaps further back using Ace of Aces on the CPC. Flight is much more of a sim than either of these, perhaps more so than Gunship 2000 a game i loved. We (as a community) need people in this hobby, you don't get people (i am sorry to say) with a piece of software like X-Plane, it's much too involved and unfriendly, you get new blood via fun friendly games like Flight.Again i am trying to stay positive, but at the moment i see only good news.

If thats really true..............Flight is just for the kids.Without 3rd party developers Flight is dead for real simming , I am afraid.BUT how sure are we about this?

We're going by this Leenhttp://forum.avsim.net/topic/358603-no-3rd-party-content-in-flight/

Now that this subject is out in the public domain, I can talk about it.In Redmond at our meeting with MS last month, that question was asked. The answer was that MS would work with "partners" to provide content, if their own in-house developers couldn't. Last week I spoke with a very well known 3rd party supplier to FSX about this subject. He stated that his group had discussed a relationship that would allow them to provide content to FLIGHT, however, the percentage of the sale given back to the developer was a deal breaker.When you think of 3rd party developers and product available to users of FLIGHT, think of the ITunes store as a model.Let me also add that of the organizations invited to Redmond, there was only one developer present and they will remain nameless.

Today I am an X-Plane User, but it was Fly! that got me hooked with Flight sims. I not only discovered the sim, I also discovered a huge crowd of people sharing the same passion. Not only that, but also sharing their time: Making add-ons, distributing them, discussing stuff etc. Whatever sim people use, that is at the bottom of it all. Be it x-plane.org or avsim.com, online web sites like those also live from this market and community around the sims. Freeare attracts users, the users bring online traffic, and developers bring in their ads. From A to Z this is the model "around the sims" that we all enjoy, embrace and have come to expect. We fly together on Ivao, Vatsim or build our businesses in FSEconomy - whatever sim the individual uses. X-Planers even use converted MSFS sceneries.FLIGHT is potentially going to transform all of that.If todays two statements remain true…a. that our freeware culture has no place in FLIGHTb. that 3rd party developers have no place in FLIGHT…then this will directly affect this kind of community that we all are passionate about. Not immediately, as there is still a lively free- and payware market around FS9/X, but NEW people will use NEW software - i.e. Flight, AeroflyFS, X-Plane 10But XP10 does not yet have the market strength to hold together all that that has evolved in the last two decades. People are very hesitant to use a very different sim. Lockhead Martin's route is partially unknown - obviously they are not consumer oriented.I perfectly understand Toms worries and share them.

This sort of summarizes the Flight Sim culture...

Lol i'll take that...I got 'into' flight simming via F/A18 Interceptor on the Amiga, or perhaps further back using Ace of Aces on the CPC. Flight is much more of a sim than either of these, perhaps more so than Gunship 2000 a game i loved. We (as a community) need people in this hobby, you don't get people (i am sorry to say) with a piece of software like X-Plane, it's much too involved and unfriendly, you get new blood via fun friendly games like Flight.Again i am trying to stay positive, but at the moment i see only good news.

I was just kidding with my post. But I believe this will be a failure because I don't think the market wants a game like this. most kids will only want to crash the planes into buildings and other stuff and since these games normally do not have crash effects they will bore quickly of that.Maybe they could put a little bit of GTA into this game and have people walking around on the ground that you can mow down with the prop and have really good crash effects with explosions and blood and people missing limbs and such after you crash into them

I appreciate everything that Mike T. said in his original post, he, like so many others are probably just so exasperated and feel very let down after reading the blurb from Microsoft that he had to vent his anger somewhere, and I stand shoulder to shoulder with him on that very score, HOWEVER, I would personally disagree that this thread needs to be deleted/closed as it serves a multitude of purposes, we can all participate in what happens when the game finally gets released and folks can come on here and relay their personal gripes and credits accordingly, it's a free download, I am already on Windows LIVE from purchasing and registering other PC games, so, no problem there it won't cost me anything to have a look and we can see what sort of a mess (sorry, project) has been developed by the wonderful folks from MS and in years to come peeps can come on here and read what happens when global conglomerates TRY to mirror quality simulators and make a complete joke of the process, I think we should allow this thread to stand for the time being.Cheerz. Transport Steve.

Edited January 5, 201214 yr by Transport_Steve