Again, if you reverse engineer the product in your own home for your own interest and DO NOT MAKE IT PUBLICALLY AVAILABLE.....who will know or even care?I have made edits to installed addon aircraft and scenery in many instances, certainly violating the EULA, but I have not made said edits available to the community or the public so who will ever know or even care?

I think you're missing the point that integrity is more important to some people than others.My favorite definition of integrity: doing the right thing, even when no one else would know.Who will know? YOU will and some people believe that the slippery slope is too slippery to dare. They wish to live on the straight and narrow.On the other side of the coin, anyone can make anything for the sim and call themselves a developer of sorts. Editing a texture for color balance, making a gauge (xml or c++), aircraft, placing an object in it's real location. Those are all making you into the category of developer and as such, can utilize the $10/month option.

As one who's gone over this stuff from the programmer's point... I'll tell you when you compare FS to X-Plane... FS beats the snot out of X-Plane for development ease. Hands down.There is a lot that X-Plane doesn't support... and I'd probably lose what's left of my hair trying to get X-Plane to behave when it comes to such things as FADEC (they aren't all exactly how Austin programmed it). VNAV and FLC autopilot functionality... though to be honest that wasn't easy in FS either. I could go on and on and on... but honestly... X-Plane is not set up to willingly support and handle complex addons. It's more like the idea of more complexity is an afterthought.

Just because it's difficult to do, doesn't mean it's impossible to do. These kinds of possibilities have only just come out a few years ago.I said it before, whatever is possible in FSX is possible in x plane. To think otherwise is just plain ignorance.And the SDK is precisely set up for handling complex add ons.

Folks, just a reminder from the P3D forumGents,From now we won't allow any more comment on the legal aspect of Prepar3D.Discussing here about the deal between Microsoft and Lockheed Martin without any basis is useless and sterile.Avsim is not a lawyer school and all those groundless speculations and comments are inappropriate and out of place here. Thanks to John Nicol, we have a fantastic opportunity to interfacing with LM developers, we shouldn't waste it because of legal stuff that isn't in our hands.Thanks for understanding.

David, with all due respect, is what's good for the goose not good for the gander depending if it's about MS Flight, LM PreparD3 or other 3RD party developers?Do I need to quote all the groundless speculations and inappropriate comments that were out of place in the Flight's forum?Some peoples here are just trying to point out some stuff that can happen IF MS or LM decide to change their view on the product..Here is a guys (frankla) in the thread below who got a 30 day vacation for saying IF about some legal stuff between MS and a 3RD party developer....now if you take a step back, and you look at the whole thread again from start to finish, please tell me....was he right or was he right??http://forum.avsim.net/topic/348973-hmmdoes-not-look-good/Guys here are just pointing out a POSSIBILITY about something that MAY very well happen to a product before investing some hard earned money in it, to each his own about PrepardD3, you buy i or you don't but not talking about it will not make " a potential" problem go away.

I think we can end all this silliness with words from John Nicol at LM himself:"Just to be clear (and trying not to sound defensive!). Anyone can purchase Prepar3D. We do not sell it as an entertainment product and the EULA talks about that, which means that it will not be appearing on the shelves of Best Buy next to Call of Duty any time soon..... I am not sure where the rumour started that we sell only to certain people, but anyone can buy it. It isn't about consumers, but end-use. If you are a pilot, simulation user, student, whatever and want to use it for familiarization, training, taxiing over bugs then go for it. If you are 10 or 110 it doesn't matter. If you want to use it at an arcade game, then buy something else. You can go to our website and purchase it with a credit card and download it. The commercial license version is $499 and we have added a considerable amount of features and made a lot of bug fixes to the code that we were fortunate enough to procure from Microsoft. A list of features can be found on our website at www.prepar3D.com. We certainly have added in bathymetry data to allow the use of submersibles and we have added in a few features for hard-core users that they should find interesting including true multi-channel (spreads the load of the image generator across multiple PCs), update to DirectInput 8 to allow up to 32 axes and 128 buttons per joystick, sensor views (night vision and infra-red), updated landclasses, GPS upgrades and so on. We have also updated and improved the SDK documentation and added more samples for developers. We are also going to be releasing an update version 1.2 of Prepar3D and the SDK in the next few weeks.Those that are looking to test, integrate, develop, investigate etc and therefore do not require a full commercial license can subscribe for $9.95 per month and receive 2 copies of the software. That is an option that many people are taking and I would be glad to see more people come on board and see what they can do with the app! There are no restrictions to joining the developer network.If people are using Prepar3D for commercial activities, then switching to the commercial license is appropriate and required.For Victor, sorry that the website isn't clear enough. I will work with Lockheed communications to try to get some clarity on that. We are just a bunch of engineers and not necessarily the best at marketing!!"Regards,John NicolPrepar3D.I think this qoute should answer ANY questions people still have regarding the use of P3D.

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by Glenn Harrall

Wow what a monster read! I finally made it to the end.My preference would be that folks do no so readily throw out their willingness to part with $500 for a new sim. And for that matter, I hate the idea of monthly subscriptions ie $10/mo or $120 per year. I prefer to buy the toy, install it and then on my own decided if I play it this month or not, if I was paying a monthly subscription I would feel obligated to use the thing. I would prefer that the toy be of a standard that it works without addons. I have purchased several games, ie Rise of Flight, F1000 racing and just use the stock program and I'm a happy camper. By the sounds of what I read here, Prepared 3D will still need you to buy addons like Orbx products to make it into a useable product.I see so many parallels to phone plans, cable television to name a couple. Get you in the door and then you pay for this and pay for that. What I really want is usually not offered, you must buy the plan and you get services you never use or need.

I think you're missing the point that integrity is more important to some people than others.My favorite definition of integrity: doing the right thing, even when no one else would know.Who will know? YOU will and some people believe that the slippery slope is too slippery to dare. They wish to live on the straight and narrow.On the other side of the coin, anyone can make anything for the sim and call themselves a developer of sorts. Editing a texture for color balance, making a gauge (xml or c++), aircraft, placing an object in it's real location. Those are all making you into the category of developer and as such, can utilize the $10/month option.

Wow, the slippery slope to where.....being a criminal? You make it sound like I am pirating software!Have you ever made a backup / ripped CD of a program or music? Ooops, guess you broke the copyright licence.Again, see the post from John Nicol regarding use of P3D. It should answer any 'moral' questions you still have.

Wow what a monster read! I finally made it to the end.My preference would be that folks do no so readily throw out their willingness to part with $500 for a new sim. And for that matter, I hate the idea of monthly subscriptions ie $10/mo or $120 per year. I prefer to buy the toy, install it and then on my own decided if I play it this month or not, if I was paying a monthly subscription I would feel obligated to use the thing. I would prefer that the toy be of a standard that it works without addons. I have purchased several games, ie Rise of Flight, F1000 racing and just use the stock program and I'm a happy camper. By the sounds of what I read here, Prepared 3D will still need you to buy addons like Orbx products to make it into a useable product.I see so many parallels to phone plans, cable television to name a couple. Get you in the door and then you pay for this and pay for that. What I really want is usually not offered, you must buy the plan and you get services you never use or need.

That's why you won't see a patch release from LM with fixes for FSX for let say $100.00, cause after the patch is installed on your FSX you won't have to buy REX again or PNW since you already have them so what else can they sell you for the second time....nothing.

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by alainneedle1

At the current pricing I dont think it makes sense in any way to pay for anything other than the monthly subscription. You get all future updates. $500 now and then an upgrade fee in a year when v2 comes out and then another in a couple years? You are probably at $800 or more over three years by purchasing the commercial license if you want to stay up to date. On the flip side at $10/month you are in at $360. I think the commercial license if a very fair cost but for you and I the monthly is probably better value. As for myself, I might even get dragged in to something completely different for a couple of months and just let it lapse until I want to use it again.

Edited January 6, 201214 yr by JasonHarris

Yes there some warts but it has a better lighting, clouds, buildings, ai cars, etc... And the flight dynamics feel better especially when flaring on landing. FSX is old and it feels old!

edit: the above is in regards to XP10. I didn't include the complete postNope....I've spent the morning using FSX, and a taildragger airplane that's still in development. The landing characteristics were sensational! It was anything, but feeling old..............as it acted and felt very real! In fact, it was those last few seconds from a wheel landing, until the tailwheel touched the ground, that seemed so realistic. Yes................it was one of those WOW moments, when virtual reality replaces real! I'm not "won" over to the flight dynamics feel of XP-10 as of yet. Some aren't bad at all; but having used the XP-10 demo, along with some payware for both XP-10 & FSX quite extensively this week............I'm not ready to leave FSX behind. Looking forward to some more ORBX too, as it's that immersion factor that will keep me interested.L.Adamson

Edited January 7, 201214 yr by LAdamson

personal/consumer entertainment = gamePrepar3D is not a game, and never will be. Prepar3D is a simulation platform devleloped by Lockheed Martin.

A direct quote from www.ixeg.net's blog: "X-Plane system simulation is relatively simple and very limited. To simulate systems on something like the a 737, you have to bypass most of x-plane's default systems and develop your own."

It's no different in FSX. In the PMDG NGX, almost all of the aircraft's systems - autopilot, FMS, hydraulics, pneumatics, electrical etc. are custom-written modules that run completely separate and apart from the rather basic and limited systems provided by FSX itself. The same can be said for most other complex add-ons for FSX, such as the FSLabs Concorde X, whose accurate emulation of the extremely complex fuel system of the Concorde is entirely custom.Likewise for any add-on that provides an FMS emulation. "Stock" FSX has no built-in FMS... just a rather limited and simplified rendition of the Garmin 500-series GPS.

It's no different in FSX. In the PMDG NGX, almost all of the aircraft's systems - autopilot, FMS, hydraulics, pneumatics, electrical etc. are custom-written modules that run completely separate and apart from the rather basic and limited systems provided by FSX itself. The same can be said for most other complex add-ons for FSX, such as the FSLabs Concorde X, whose accurate emulation of the extremely complex fuel system of the Concorde is entirely custom.Likewise for any add-on that provides an FMS emulation. "Stock" FSX has no built-in FMS... just a rather limited and simplified rendition of the Garmin 500-series GPS.

+1

Thanks to the pro organisatins who have revealed a little insight here.My personal interest has been to push the boundaries in skinning (although a wrecked wrist two years ago has reduced my activity) - from a purely "Freeware" point of view I think Flight is going to hurt a lot of people - just look at any of the downloads in Avsim library: the heavy metal brigade often have tens of thousands of downloads for paints and even my own humble total of GA repaints passed a total of well over 30k (best single paint was around 2000 downloads).With Flight, I am dead in the water if MS lock out the third parties. I'll be dammned if I pay license fees to MS for stuff I do for free here - and I don't think the "Piglets" of this world will either.I am deeply heartened by the fact that FTX and al the other payware producers are looking to keep the flag flying and I am pleased to see Lockheed, Aerofly and Outerra receiving attention - somewhere out there, there is a world waiting for us! Although from what I can see, the Lockheed-Martin version fo FSX appears to be the only really viable option at the moment. However... from their blurb, it looks like 45 airports and 39 cities only are available. Seems a bit meagre, considering that the default 60$ FSX package (which is also part of the ESP package, no?) contains 20000+ airports and airstrips as well as cityscapes in most countries.There is also a comment on the P3D site about possible copyright issues with FSX third party addons - would such care to make an open statement that any of their FSX products are OK to use in P3D? Although I am sure the answer is yes in 99% of cases, the question still needs clarifying. TBH, I am even prepared to pay the 500$ for a (really) good base package, but it does need to be a tad better than a base FSX and it does need addon compatibility - and if someone could get rid of all the orphaned code, that would be good too.Anyway, it's great to see such positive news about the "old stuff". MS appears to have "gone by the suits" - but what they have really forgotten is that ANY profit is good. I am sure that FSX was not a loss maker - it paid for the dev team and still added to the MS bank account. To quote Dickens' Micawber - "Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery."By thinking to take some of the third party income for themselves, MS may well be backing themselves into Micawber's misery...

Infinite Flight actually runs PC, we do most of our development on Windows 7 and I can tell you that it runs really smooth. We just haven't released it yet because it's much harder to reach an audience on PC.

Cool, hope to see your sim on my PC one day. Don't have an iOs or WinPhone7 phone/tablet (Android user here), so can't try mobile version, but best wishes to you.

Thanks to the pro organisatins who have revealed a little insight here.My personal interest has been to push the boundaries in skinning (although a wrecked wrist two years ago has reduced my activity) - from a purely "Freeware" point of view I think Flight is going to hurt a lot of people - just look at any of the downloads in Avsim library: the heavy metal brigade often have tens of thousands of downloads for paints and even my own humble total of GA repaints passed a total of well over 30k (best single paint was around 2000 downloads).With Flight, I am dead in the water if MS lock out the third parties. I'll be dammned if I pay license fees to MS for stuff I do for free here - and I don't think the "Piglets" of this world will either.I am deeply heartened by the fact that FTX and al the other payware producers are looking to keep the flag flying and I am pleased to see Lockheed, Aerofly and Outerra receiving attention - somewhere out there, there is a world waiting for us! Although from what I can see, the Lockheed-Martin version fo FSX appears to be the only really viable option at the moment. However... from their blurb, it looks like 45 airports and 39 cities only are available. Seems a bit meagre, considering that the default 60$ FSX package (which is also part of the ESP package, no?) contains 20000+ airports and airstrips as well as cityscapes in most countries.There is also a comment on the P3D site about possible copyright issues with FSX third party addons - would such care to make an open statement that any of their FSX products are OK to use in P3D? Although I am sure the answer is yes in 99% of cases, the question still needs clarifying. TBH, I am even prepared to pay the 500$ for a (really) good base package, but it does need to be a tad better than a base FSX and it does need addon compatibility - and if someone could get rid of all the orphaned code, that would be good too.Anyway, it's great to see such positive news about the "old stuff". MS appears to have "gone by the suits" - but what they have really forgotten is that ANY profit is good. I am sure that FSX was not a loss maker - it paid for the dev team and still added to the MS bank account. To quote Dickens' Micawber - "Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen pounds nineteen and six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery."By thinking to take some of the third party income for themselves, MS may well be backing themselves into Micawber's misery...

Very well put.