which sounds a lot better. It's a lot safer to say it that way whenever I have to explain it to my family!

:( this is why everytime i see a purchase in my credit cards from the coach and louis vuitton stores i save those bills they will save me if the wife ever gets into the HOW MUCH HAVE YOU BLOW ON THAT THING court......

:( this is why everytime i see a purchase in my credit cards from the coach and louis vuitton stores i save those bills they will save me if the wife ever gets into the HOW MUCH HAVE YOU BLOW ON THAT THING court......

"A good offense is the best defense.""Discretion is the better part of valour.""There is safety in numbers.""Darn the torpeodoes, full speed ahead!""Never put off doing until tomorrow what you can do today.""A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.""Go ahead. Make my day!or (when all else fails):"Yes Dear!"I am not sure which of those slogans best fits that problem, but hopefully one of them will come to the rescue when the time comes!Kind regards,

Edited January 12, 201214 yr by SpiritFlyer

"A good offense is the best defense.""Discretion is the better part of valour.""There is safety in numbers.""Darn the torpeodoes, full speed ahead!""Never put off doing until tomorrow what you can do today.""A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.""Go ahead. Make my day!or, when all else fails:"Yes Dear!"I am not sure which of those slogans best fits that problem, but hopefully one of them will come to the rescue when the time comes!Kind regards,

when that time comes she will also find out why i build such a nice Dog house...

" How can you miss what you never had??"....

No SDK.Nothing else matters. I actually agree on some points the OP made, but there's no SDK. So it doesn't matter what anything else is like.

Stephan I like your thoughts...nice to hear some of this relating to flight.

Wow, fascinating thread. Stephen, I hope you're right -- I really hope there is more than meets the eye with Flight right now. I guess my initial reaction was driven by one of the three sources of upset: unfulfilled expectations (the other two are undelivered communication and thwarted intention) from Microsoft. I'm sure many of us had been hoping that Flight would be more than what we understand it to be (as of now).And, just to have a little more fun with the psychology paradigm, maybe I've just moved farther down the Five Stages of Loss continuum:

1. Denial and Isolation
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

Uh, if you were a psychology major, you'll remember these. BTW, I think I'm leaving the fourth stage right now.A couple of my favorite excerpts from the thread:

After all, we simmers all started on Meigs Field in a cesna....

I couldn't land that Cessna if my life depended on it!

Back in 1991, I was a newly minted private pilot when I tried MSFS 4.0. I felt (and still do) that flying the sim was harder than flying the real piece of aluminum -- for a variety of reasons back in the day, but nowadays less to do with graphics than the "feel" of flying, i.e. none few of us can afford a motion platform.But, to all, it's worth the journey to search for screenshots and videos of the progression of Microsoft Flight Simulator. As my late, great friend George Stephens (kingfish42) used to say, "it just keeps getting better and better." Here's to hopes that his words are somehow true with Flight. Regards.p.s. One more thought. Regarding the "cost" of the addiction, er, hobby, a doctor friend of mine still feels compelled to hide the credit card bill before his wife gets hold of it. Go figure.

Edited January 12, 201214 yr by N738NM

Wow, fascinating thread. Stephen, I hope you're right -- I really hope there is more than meets the eye with Flight right now. I guess my initial reaction was driven by one of the three sources of upset: unfulfilled expectations (the other two are undelivered communication and thwarted intention) from Microsoft. I'm sure many of us had been hoping that Flight would be more than what we understand it to be (as of now).And, just to have a little more fun with the psychology paradigm, maybe I've just moved farther down the Five Stages of Loss continuum:

1. Denial and Isolation
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

Uh, if you were a psychology major, you'll remember these. BTW, I think I'm leaving the fourth stage right now.A couple of my favorite excerpts from the thread:Back in 1991, I was a newly minted private pilot when I tried MSFS 4.0. I felt (and still do) that flying the sim was harder than flying the real piece of aluminum -- for a variety of reasons back in the day, but nowadays less to do with graphics than the "feel" of flying, i.e. none few of us can afford a motion platform.But, to all, it's worth the journey to search for screenshots and videos of the progression of Microsoft Flight Simulator. As my late, great friend George Stephens (kingfish42) used to say, "it just keeps getting better and better." Here's to hopes that his words are somehow true with Flight. Regards.p.s. One more thought. Regarding the "cost" of the addiction, er, hobby, a doctor friend of mine still feels compelled to hide the credit card bill before his wife gets hold of it. Go figure.

Interesting post! Psychologically I am all over the map, exibiting a bit of all five stages of loss, along with a bit of ambivalence topped by a layer of hope.

1. Denial and Isolation :(
2. Anger B)
3. Bargaining :(
4. Depression B)
5. Acceptance :(

That makes me pretty much a fried scrambled egg.

Stathis1, I have picked your quote but I am not singling you out or trying to pick on you, you just worded this point so nice that I found it convenient to answer this quote:

it is not about optimism here, it's about the things we know. And we know enough to know that Flight is like a 5% complete flight sim.

This may well be true. But while discussing facts ("the things we know"), we should also keep in mind that we definitely know, that this "5-percent-of-a-complete-sim" version will cost ZERO dollars / euros / [insert preferred currency here].This means that Microsoft will absolutely have to be successful in selling stuff for Flight in the "marketplace" just in order to break even on the development cost, let alone make a profit. There is so much talk about how greedy this evil company Microsoft is (oh I forgot to put the $ in there), by those who are trampling on Flight here. Well, yes, they are known to agressively seek revenue.... good, this means they will have to sell lots of things in the Flight store.My guess is, that they are striving for the revenue to come in from the very first day that Flight is released on.... which implies a marketplace that is nicely filled with lots of goodies from day one. That Has To Be, because they are "obviously" targeting those with a short attention span.... aren't they? Those who will forget about Flight being installed on their harddrive as soon as the next shooter comes out.... right?EDIT: oh, and filling the marketplace quickly with lots of stuff, while trying to keep development cost and time low, implies offering stuff that already exists.... a manager will likely say, "how about that ATC, and that airport database, and all that mesh etc. we happen to have around?"...I have a hard time believing the many people who seem to expect The World to be present entirely, in a product that costs absolutely nothing. And I do not believe - but this is, of course, speculation - that we will not be able to get the complete world.Months ago, there was this talk about how MS suddenly shut the doors for developers, and how there was a management change at MS and the direction going all wrong. At that time, I tought, MS should at least be nice enough to remove that text from the FAQ... the one about how Flight "retains the full fidelity simulation longtime fans have come to expect". But in the most recent news entry, they re-affirm "accurate cockpits and authentic piloting procedures", and Flight to be "still challenging for the most accomplished PC pilots". I still have not seen evidence that Flight will be any less capable than FSX. Well, the no-money version will of course be way less capable.... what do you guys expect?This is not very different from previous versions of "the franchise" that always tried to be interesting for a broad range of different folks. All this alarm about the arcade stuff in Flight is soooo resembling all that was said about FSX before that came out. FSX has green stuff in the air to fly through, missions in which you encounter UFOs going Mach 5.silly, comes pre-configured for the XBox controller etc. But some people are just insisting that the Flight Simulator series was somehow not a game but something else. I actually just went to fetch the boxes... in front of me are FSX "professional ed.", Acceleration, and a FSX "gold edition" box. All of them have "Games for Windows" in large letters on the front side, and a "Microsoft Game Studios" logo on the back.My gut feeling is, that for me, Flight will be just like previous "flying games" from MS. Being installed, growing into an ever more capable thing as content is added, until it replaces its predecessor as my preferred software for any flying activity I do on my computer.

Edited January 12, 201214 yr by nbz

This is not very different from previous versions of "the franchise" that always tried to be interesting for a broad range of different folks. All this alarm about the arcade stuff in Flight is soooo resembling all that was said about FSX before that came out. FSX has green stuff in the air to fly through, missions in which you encounter UFOs going Mach 5.silly, comes pre-configured for the XBox controller etc. But some people are just insisting that the Flight Simulator series was somehow not a game but something else. I actually just went to fetch the boxes... in front of me are FSX "professional ed.", Acceleration, and a FSX "gold edition" box. All of them have "Games for Windows" in large letters on the front side, and a "Microsoft Game Studios" logo on the back.My gut feeling is, that for me, Flight will be just like previous "flying games" from MS. Being installed, growing into an ever more capable thing as content is added, until it replaces its predecessor as my preferred software for any flying activity I do on my computer.

Very well put NBZ. It takes a knowledge of the history of the franchise to see what is essentially a natural progression. Nothing sinister, just sensible.Kind regards,

My small Flight rant is if the base code is good, flight models and graphics excellent, everything else will be added for a price. Since the majority of add on's for FSX is non gaming, the same will apply for flight. Add on's such as air craft, land masses, utilities, that enhance realism, not gaming will be popular. I cannot see Flight selling an add on to make tokens bigger, or hoops that glow in the dark, or funny looking toy planes that spew pink bubbles after a token is collected. What will be added is the same time tested, proven quality add on's that can be used for flying. Add on's that enhance the flying experience. Look at the offerings available for FSX and tell me how many of them turn FSX into a game? It is add on's that made FSX more realistic. Why would that change for Flight? What add on's do you think will be offered? Bubbles the clown with a propeller cap? Or a 747 with every button and switch that works? What percentage of FSX add on's make it more of a game? Extra mission packs? That being said how many of those are mirror gaming verses rescue type flying? With the helicopter mission packs, it's about rescue not collecting tokens or pixie dust. I say Flight will mature, not regress. If money is to be made with add on's, we will see developers making popular best selling money making units. What developer will say no to profit? The initial free download numbers will be staggering. Once you hook the fish, you reel him in with offering quality add on's that enhance the flying experience. Flight will be great for developers pending they get paid what they deserve. No more pirating there stuff, and what percentage of developers sales are stolen? Would this have happened if they distributed through the resources of Flight? http://cerasimaircraft.com/ The add on's that sell best for FSX are the same add on's that will sell best for Flight.

Edited January 14, 201214 yr by drumsonly2002

My small Flight rant is if the base code is good, flight models and graphics excellent, everything else will be added for a price. Since the majority of add on's, 98% is non gaming, the same will apply for flight. Add on's such as air craft, land masses, utilities, that enhance realism, not gaming.

I agree, except for the 98% part. If they are going to cater to both groups, you're going to see more of a mix of game/simulator content with most scenery areas. There's likely going to be additional missions, challenges, and Aerocache Hunts, included with every scenery area. I'm guessing as much as 20% will be gaming content.

I agree with with your post, as I removed the percentage in my last edit. The mix of game/sim content sounds very reasonable. Good post. I must admit I enjoy helicopter rescue missions payware. I agree with the 20% vs the 2%. I think the Flight server will be busy this spring. If Flight is quality and developers can make a buck, it should fly, no pun intended.

:( All we are saying...is give Flight a chance! :(

Edited January 15, 201214 yr by SpiritFlyer

LOL! Well put in very few words. If something can make money (add on's), there is always someone who will find a way to make it. Pre judgement, speculation based on a unfinished beta, and poor communication from the developers is not something that carries much weight with me. What does carry a lot of weight is human nature. $$$ The making of money through the sale of products $$$ The demand will be for items making Flight realistic. I said this before, and say it again, The add on's that are best sellers for FSX, will be the same add on's that will be the best sellers for Flight. All this energy spent discussion about how it's a toy sim will go by the way side and the focus will be on realism. When we get our free Flight this spring, and the request for features start rolling in, product will roll out. Until then, back to the food fight.

:( All we are saying...is give Flight a chance! :(

Edited January 15, 201214 yr by drumsonly2002