I'm just really annoyed at MS, by the way beta testers were blind-sided by yesterday's news.

Yes Ma'am, me too. In fact, I was "misdirected". Be that as it may, it is a fantastic base for a flight sim, if that is the way it goes. If not, then well, I'm an idiot.

HelloWell that just leaves Fred then :(

Flight definitely has the potential to replace FSX . . . IF the Team is allowed to take Flight to that level.

Yeah, and that is in hands of Microsoft, not us. They wont make whole world available (which would be required to really replace FSX) if thats not what was originally planned for Flight.

It's irelevant what they admit. You forget that the Flight management are not at the top of the corporate pecking order. Having worked for large international companies, I can assure you that more senior management would want to know why should it fail and heads might well roll.Other games have sold in tens of millions. But it's not about sales. it's about return on investment. If Microsoft thinks it will get a better return on other types of games those are what it will invest it.

I wasn't referring to the FLIGHT team. I bet it was Game Studio execs who had the brilliant idea of turning FSX into a coin collecting game. But me not liking it isn't equal to failure. Millions might enjoy it for all I know!ROI is not exact science. Even in business it is sometimes smart to think ahead of the next quarter. Rome wasn't built in a day! Microsoft allready has the brand and the reputation as the best flight sim maker in the world. In other words, the biggest investment has allready been done and is sunk cost.

I wasn't referring to the FLIGHT team. I bet it was Game Studio execs who had the brilliant idea of turning FSX into a coin collecting game. But me not liking it isn't equal to failure. Millions might enjoy it for all I know!

Whoever took the decision, there would still be an inquest if Flight failed.

ROI is not exact science. Even in business it is sometimes smart to think ahead of the next quarter. Rome wasn't built in a day! Microsoft allready has the brand and the reputation as the best flight sim maker in the world. In other words, the biggest investment has allready been done and is sunk cost.

Agreed it's not an exact science, but if there are competing proposals for investment, the one with the largest ROI would be favoured. Sunk cost is not relevant here . ROI is based on future expenditure and future returns - bygones are bygones.

Although i wiil be DLing the demo (that's all it is IMO) purely out of curiosity, I wiil not be purchasing anything for this game..... I'm not that stupid! Consider this....... the FS comunity will propbably shun Flight for the most part and the gamimng comunity...... ##### are they supposed to run it on? They no longer have gaiming computers in favor of their consoles. So it wiil have to be released/ ported to X-Box. Even then, it will probably be a failure as aboluly no one in the gaming comuty is looking forward to Flight as far as I can see. I have searched the gaming sites for any info about Flight and found abssolutly none. ACES migh have fell on their swords but, MS shot themselves in the both feet!

Edited February 7, 201214 yr by JoeD

Agreed it's not an exact science, but if there are competing proposals for investment, the one with the largest ROI would be favoured. Sunk cost is not relevant here . ROI is based on future expenditure and future returns - bygones are bygones.

Yep, but future ROI is still a gamble. I make spreadsheets for a living and I can make any project look lucerative. In the end future ROI is based on someones subjective view on probabilities. Just as you can't predict the weather you can't predict ROI.

Although i wiil be DLing the demo (that's all it is IMO) purely out of curiosity, I wiil not be purchasing anything for this game..... I'm not that stupid! Consider this....... the FS comunity will propbably shun Flight for the most part and the gamimng comunity...... ##### are they supposed to run it on? They no longer have gaiming computers in favor of their consoles. So it wiil have to be released/ ported to X-Box. Even then, it will probably be a failure as aboluly no one in the gaming comuty is looking forward to Flight as far as I can see. I have searched the gaming sites for any info about Flight and found abssolutly none.

Umm, you are sooo wrong about gamers not owning computers!According to two recent studies, the PC games are making a comeback and are predicted to overtake console game sales within the next year or two:PC gaming vs. consoles, the infographicPC gaming isn’t dead, and will soon overtake consolesAND there's info on Flight on a LOT of gaming sites. The following took me like 30 seconds to find:http://www.shacknews.com/article/72337/ms-flight-coming-february-29-with-hawaiian-islands-packhttp://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/02/06/microsoft-flight-release-date.aspxhttp://www.gameshadow.com/gamepedia/3393a/microsoft_flight/http://www.gameconnect.net/gc/retail/news/43284/microsoft-flight-release-date-announced

Edited February 7, 201214 yr by Arwen

More than 75% of the Flight devs are ex Aces.Fred.

Yep, but future ROI is still a gamble. I make spreadsheets for a living and I can make any project look lucerative. In the end future ROI is based on someones subjective view on probabilities. Just as you can't predict the weather you can't predict ROI.

Of course if you lie you can make a spreasheet come out with any result you choose.Companies have standardised methods for assessing ROI and each will be subject to independent review before it's accepted.If faced with requests for, say, $10m development funding for two projects one of which has a 100% ROI and the other 200% ROI which will be funded?

Umm, you are sooo wrong about gamers not owning computers! According to two recent studies, the PC games are making a comeback and are predicted to overtake console game sales within the next year or two:.........

Yes, PC gaming is making a bit of a come back. However Flight is being released in a few days...... not in a year or two if/when PC gaming makes any sort of real come back. Also, it was just recently announced that smart phones have overtaken desktop/laptop PCs in sales world wide which has signifantly declined.

Edited February 7, 201214 yr by JoeD

According to two recent studies, the PC games are making a comeback and are predicted to overtake console game sales within the next year or two:

Thanks good news if that does happen. Thanks for the links Arwen.

Yes Ma'am, me too. In fact, I was "misdirected". Be that as it may, it is a fantastic base for a flight sim, if that is the way it goes. If not, then well, I'm an idiot.

I'll be on that "ship of fools" with you then. I'm not a beta tester, I don't have any inside info, I'm not employed by Microsoft, and I only know what I've seen that is available to everyone else. I feel Flight has potential basing it on it's own merits, not comparing it to other programs...I would truly like to see Flight do well.What concerns me, and I've said it before, is some of the comments in these forums are NOT welcoming to other people joining the "virtual aviation crowd" - and this is one of the less rude forums! Someone googling MSFlight would get the impression that the current community doesn't want anyone new - that if you're not currently "part of the club", then you're not welcome.That's a little off topic...but the negativity wears me down.

Of course if you lie you can make a spreasheet come out with any result you choose.Companies have standardised methods for assessing ROI and each will be subject to independent review before it's accepted.If faced with requests for, say, $10m development funding for two projects one of which has a 100% ROI and the other 200% ROI which will be funded?

Both calculations of ROI are based on subjective input data. It doesn't matter if the method is standardised or not. At some point someone must assume the probability of something happening in the future. Calculating ROI for an entertainment product is extremely difficult because so many aspects of the product is hard to quantify. Just look at all the singles, movies and games that came from nowhere and took the world by storm, and all the anticipated hits that crashed and burned and left record companies, movie and game studios with negative ROIs.

Yes, PC gaming is making a bit of a come back. However Flight is being released in a few days...... not in a year or two if/when PC gaming makes any sort of real come back. Also, it was just recently announced that smart phones have overtaken desktop/laptop PCs in sales world wide which has signifantly declined.

In number of phones vs. number of PCs, perhaps ,,, but not in revenue,And I'm not talking about "a year or two" from now ... I'm talking about NOW. Here are the estimates, as of Oct 2011:"A new report concerning the PC gaming hardware market indicates that computer-based sales will continue to grow at a rate of 11 percent from now until at least 2014. These figures are primarily based on the fact that over 250 million game-capable PCs will ship in 2011, compared to only 230 million PS3, Wii and Xbox 360 consoles that have shipped since 2005.Despite the onslaught of competition and the ongoing economic recession, Jon Peddie Research believes the PC gaming hardware market will generate $19 billion in sales in 2011. The research firm estimates that half a billion people regularly play PC games, an increase of about 3 percent in their 2011 forecast."I would consider more than just a "bit of a comeback."Source

Edited February 7, 201214 yr by Arwen