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LuisFelizTirado

Nobody listens to me....

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Perhaps some people feel frustrated and believe that Microsoft Game Studios is not engaged in a dialogue nor attentive to the wishes of its users. This is nothing new, it has always been this way, and is probably very common in many other areas of life.

 

There are very understandable reasons for the relative silence from MGS and it is interesting to consider some of them:

 

- Believe it or not, the developers have work to do, a lot of work. Many of them work late into the night, a few spend all night at work (not healthy at all) because of all they have to do. So, they don't really have a lot of time to spend discussing their work with the hundreds of users and responding to all the requests and complaints.

 

- Given the nature of many users and the violence of their attitude, it could be that the devs feel it is wiser and more prudent to avoid sterile arguments that do nothing to advance their work or make them more productive.

 

- The devs spend a lot of their time in meetings putting together detailed development plans; they already considered a large number of user requests and what many users complain about or request is already on the dev list anyway.

 

- With Flight, they have a very powerful analytical tool and can get extremely detailed user statistics on most of the aspects of game use, so they will already know what is good and what is less popular about the game. Many of our complaints are nothing new to them.

 

- A corollary to this is that many user complaints are not based on hard statistics but only on a subjective feeling, whereas the stats the devs have often allow them to see that the general user base does not really see some things as problems at all, no matter what some particular users might believe.

 

 

In my particular experience, I have made suggestions (and continue to make them), and some have subsequently appeared in the game. I don't pretend to be anybody important in this hobby or that my requests are essential to the game, that is not my point. In my little field of scenery design, we know that we are only the backdrop to a flight simulator and that the flight model and the aircraft are the most important aspect. Still, I can corroborate that the devs will implement ideas that they find interesting or useful and that they consider can appeal to the general user base.

 

For example, 6 years ago, on the Flight Simulator X beta, I demonstrated some code and displayed some screenshots of a very small, unimportant, but cool, little scenery feature: streams with trees on their banks. I was reproducing a local airport and you can see from this Google image that a stream runs by the runway on Short Final:

 

 

 

 

 

So, I cooked up some simple code to replicate this in FS X:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's nothing much, and while I kept it in mind, I did not expect the devs to reply to me or do anything about it, since they have their priorities. But, 6 years later, I fired up the Flight beta and saw this:

 

 

 

 

 

That surprised me and made me happy. Not just because it shows that the devs are open to ideas from users, but because it makes the game just a little prettier and more life-like. Even though, as I mentioned, this is not a very large or important feature, certainly not ATC or AI aircraft (although you can be sure that those features and many others are on their list.)

 

So, instead of being frustrated by a perceived lack of communication from the devs, I would kindly suggest that we:

 

- make our suggestions or comments in a detailed, courteous, even friendly manner, and most of all avoid anger or spiteful comments;

 

- not expect the devs to reply to us, since we are too numerous;

 

- be patient. This is difficult, perhaps the hardest for us, but they have a lot to do and can not implement our requests immediately. These things take a lot of time.

 

Best regards.

Luis

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That surprised me and made me happy. Not just because it shows that the devs are open to ideas from users

 

Hm, don't want to rain on your party (if that's the right expression), but er... maybe the Flight devs simply looked out of their windows (or took some shots of Hawaii) and came up with this 'idea' themselves...? :wink: I mean, do you really think the devs of Flight took note of something someone posted 6 years ago during the beta of FSX and implemented it in Flight...? I like to believe it, but this is something that can be seen in the real world and I am sure the devs of Flight also noticed those trees along the rivers (amongst others) in real life (or Google pictures) one time or another... :wink:

 

Apart from that, you've got some valid points, of course, when it comes to devs being silent. :wink:

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Hmmm, not sure I would offer anything and not expect something as a simple thank you email.

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I have to think they visit forums and get ideas from users (and competitors). In the 1990's I ranted and raved about how with the advent of the internet it should be possible to go online and download real weather from the internet and place it in the sim. Pro Pilot also was the first sim to come out with terrain based on reality, and 3d clouds that did not look like ice cubes. All magically appeared in the next version of fs. Who did the idea come from?-who knows-and who cares-the sim was vastly improved!

 

Part of the reason I think it is important to advocate always for improvements and change though-it can't hurt!

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Do you know, Jeroen? I always think that everything that we mention here, everything, has already occurred to the devs. Clearly, this is their job, they have spent many years on it, and they know what they are doing. I don't pretend that I make any difference and that is not my point. In fact, I would ask everybody to think as you, and consider that everything we say is something the devs already know, so why make so much fuss?

 

As for the streams I illustrate above, it was Phil Taylor, you might remember him as he was Lead Project Manager for FS X, who showed enthusiasm for this little feature in the FS X beta discussion group. That does not mean that I believe that I am the origin of every good idea in the world, but that I showed something to the devs (that was probably already on their list, thank you for mentioning it to me) and they decided to go ahead and put it in the game.

 

I might add that streams have trees on their banks in many parts of the world, not just Hawai'i, perhaps there are even a few in Seattle. :LMAO: And yet they never looked out their window to see them until I reminded them 6 years ago.

 

Please notice how long it took to implement this even for something so inconsequential.

 

Best regards.

Luis

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I don't think this is an issue of whether the devs decide to respond to the public -- after all, it's their job to develop, not communicate with customers. Rather it's the management that decides that customer contact is a low priority. Customer service has never been MS's strong suit.

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It seems a bit odd. Much, much smaller companies, with smaller staffs, smaller budgets, and smaller incomes in this market manage to speak constructively with their current and potential customers all the time. The list of people contributing to the flight project in some way or another (according to the credits) runs as long as a small movie, yet MS and the flight team are too busy or find it too hard or unproductive to engage potential customers for their new effort..........?

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... There are very understandable reasons for the relative silence from MGS ......

Mmm.. I hope you don't mind I disagree.

It's not a task of the devs (in large co.) to communicate about their product. It's better they doesn't at all (they are 'too involved'). It's the responsibility of the staff of the company (or maybe delegated to a communication/marketing staff)

Naturally the devs will do their job as good as they can, but the employees in other companies do the same.

I.m.h.o. you just focussed on one dimension of the process. Other dimensions could be the product it self (MSF) and the consumer/buyer.

In the good (economic) times many large companies have forgotten the consumers-dimension. Nowadays, when business ($) reduces they (have to) change and revalue the importancy of the consumers/buyers.

I have nothing with the MS-company, as I have nothing with the producer of my washdisher, my shoes or my bike.

I only whish to have quality for my money. If so, maybe I will buy next time a product from that brand. If not, they never get my money again. As simple as that.

It's the business-challenge of the MSGames Studio to get my money out of my pocket.

The start of the MSF game was a good one. They had my money for the Hawaiian Pack, and a P-15 by accident. If they get my money in future, depends of the quality of their next product, i.c. Alaska?

And so on ...

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I fully agree with Luis.

 

I also participated on the FSX beta, entering the team by the time Acceleration was released. Picky as I am and really looking fwd for some good rotary wing flight dynamics, I kept posting issues with the EH-101, asking for fixes additional features, and I can testemony that they really got invloved in many of those subjects, together with hundreds of other details with scenery, AI, ATC...

 

I have not participated in the FLIGHT beta team, but I use it, more than I used any other simulator until today - incredible! And, just as I also pointed out, I did see at least one of my emails to the Dev team translated into those phrases that are issued during loading times.

 

I am really looking fwd for Alaska and for whateber it will bring, but, for the time being the only thing that comes to my mind, many times, is that if FLIGHT had ATC, AI, customizable weather, etc... we would most probably be dealling with lots of stuttering problems, discussing how slow it was running on this or that machines. Of course, people with better rigs can always say - ok, at least give as an option, because it will run on our machines... I believe some of those wanted features will eventualy get into FLIGHT, when their time/DLC arrives :-)

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Some years ago i was at a AC show and had the chance to take a first look at a few smallchanges of a flight deck . there was 80 of us all looking at the new changes , i took the time to seat in the front seat with some of the engineers and made a few simple suggestions to those guys while must of the other pilots had a weird way of talking or even a rude way of making their ideas known . two months later i was the only one that had a call and was invited down to Brazil to take a test flight . they listened to me and the first words that i hear from the engineers was "we loved the unique way you approach us with your ideas so we want you to take a look at what we did . ITS ALL ABOUT THE WAY YOU EXPRESS YOURSELF SOMETIMES........

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I am really looking fwd for Alaska and for whateber it will bring, but, for the time being the only thing that comes to my mind, many times, is that if FLIGHT had ATC, AI, customizable weather, etc... we would most probably be dealling with lots of stuttering problems, discussing how slow it was running on this or that machines. Of course, people with better rigs can always say - ok, at least give as an option, because it will run on our machines... I believe some of those wanted features will eventualy get into FLIGHT, when their time/DLC arrives :-)

 

Exactly. I've thought a lot about that too -- what would happen to public sessions with that kind of thing? For example, would ATC be real-time feed over the net? If so, the lag in multiplayer sessions could be enormous.

 

Personally, I'd settle for a greater variety of aircraft with cockpits and more interesting and varied missions/challenges. Looking forward to Alaska with guarded optimism.

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ITS ALL ABOUT THE WAY YOU EXPRESS YOURSELF SOMETIMES........

 

Only if you want people to pay attention to you.

 

No, really, it's amazing how many people actually think they will influence others by screaming at them.

 

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Never used ATC in FS since since always believed that VATSIM was the way to go for controlled flights. But some AI would be nice.

 

Since I was involved in a FS beta only because I made a program and that saw the idea incorporated I can assure that, at least in previous versions, they do listen.

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Perhaps some people feel frustrated and believe that Microsoft Game Studios is not engaged in a dialogue nor attentive to the wishes of its users.

 

For me, what is dissapointing is that Microsoft Game Studios has chosen not to give us any indication of what their road map is for the game. At this stage I personally have no idea how broad or how narrow their vision is.

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For me, what is dissapointing is that Microsoft Game Studios has chosen not to give us any indication of what their road map is for the game. At this stage I personally have no idea how broad or how narrow their vision is.

 

 

Well, wherever they are going, they are remarkably non-aggressive about promotion of the product and its future. The barely audible mumbles we do hear give the impression of people on a painfully short leash.

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, wherever they are going, they are remarkably non-aggressive about promotion of the product and its future.

 

Absolutely, it is really quite surreal. It is like there is no actual plan. Just a vague idea about targetting a wider audience by including more gaming elements. No problem with that. What they have done so far is really good. But where is it going and how long is it going to take? The answers so far have been too vague to form any kind of opinion. Personally, I think that FLIGHT has huge potential but that Microsoft has very limited confidence in this as a money-making enterprise and are treating it as a suck-it-and-see project.

 

I am tempted to start a new topic entitled "ZZZZZ wake me up when the next DLC is announced".

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Absolutely, it is really quite surreal. It is like there is no actual plan. Just a vague idea about targetting a wider audience by including more gaming elements. No problem with that. What they have done so far is really good. But where is it going and how long is it going to take? The answers so far have been too vague to form any kind of opinion. Personally, I think that FLIGHT has huge potential but that Microsoft has very limited confidence in this as a money-making enterprise and are treating it as a suck-it-and-see project.

 

I am tempted to start a new topic entitled "ZZZZZ wake me up when the next DLC is announced".

 

Its probably an established fact by now that I am generally a flight supporter. I like Flight, see the potential and want it to succeed. That being said, the obvious decision to not communicate meaningfully with...... anyone, does nothing to build and maintain enthusiasm, and if the developers have pride and plans for the project, well....... they are certainly not sharing it with us.

 

Its such a strange tactic, that as you said, its approaching the surreal. Where is the ongoing attempt to promote this product and build enthusiasm? I have never seen such an apparent total blackout of information from a new software release that presumably wants to create positive buzz and draw in new people.

 

Here is a video about a company that wants to be out there and speak to its customers. And interestingly, its probably one of the success stories that helped draw MS in to test the DLC waters in the first place. Its unfortunate that Ms's overriding corporate culture seems to make them allergic to actually speaking with/to the public. And yes, I brought Trainz 2012 today and am excited by their enthusiasm and pride for their own product and their vision of the future. (and their ability and desire to talk about it)

 

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For me, what is dissapointing is that Microsoft Game Studios has chosen not to give us any indication of what their road map is for the game. At this stage I personally have no idea how broad or how narrow their vision is.

 

 

Personally, I'm not surprised at all over this. Most big software vendors are tight lipped about their future products, and for good reasons. If you lay out your plans to the public you can't change them if you want to, people will yell at you if you deviate from them, your competitors get intelligence for free, etc. Considering the telemetry Microsoft will be getting from player's activities, I imagine they want to be as unrestricted as possible in their planning. Plus, in the game scene I imagine the element of surprise is all the more important.

 

Just my 2 øre (100 øre equals 1 krone).

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Sounds a lot like Apple to me, and they are the ones who made this business model so popular in the first place, aren't they?

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