Goran - Let me see if I understand this correctly, because what you're saying is NOT the same as has been said previously.  If I buy a copy of X-Plane 10 from Amazon, the version I'd be getting would be a stable, production release?  I've then got the option of downloading the newer, development releases of the software by participating in the Beta programme?  And within the major version numbers (9, 10 etc) where will be a number of milestone releases that will be flagged as Stable?

 

THAT is not the same as saying "X-Plane 10 is still in Beta", as anyone with any knowledge of software development lifecycles will surely appreciate.  That is a fairly standard pattern for ongoing software development as you say and is something I for one have no problem with.  I strongly urge X-Plane advocates NOT to fall back on "It's still only a Beta" as a defence against comparisons with FSX, as it gives a very wrong impression.

 

You are able to opt in to the betas by choice. Should you not wish to download them, a checkbox is present which will allow you to only download the last stable, considered "final" incremental version.

Pyroski, in your post which you've since edited, you originally said..

 

"As far as I can recall X-Plane has used this method for updating and enhancing their software since their inception ... and the fact that they do this has never been purposely hidden from the community as you're stating. Cheers!"

 

At no point did I state anything of the sort. What I said was that when I pay full price for a piece of software, shrinkwrapped as physical media or the equivalent from a retail download store, then I expect it to be a stable, production release of the software, not an unfinished work in progress. This is a general statement of principle for me, not specific to X-Plane and Laminar. There's nothing on the X-Plane product page on Amazon to say that the product they'd ship to you would be a Beta version, and if that were the case THAT would be disingenuous. Now Goran is indicating that it is NOT the case, then I have no problem with it.

I edited my version because what Goran and Jeremy said were better answers than my attempt.

I drew the conclusion that you were implying that X-Plane marketing is based on a lie because when one is talking within the context of X-Plane (and your statement was within that context), I think it is a reasonable inference based on what you said. Disingenuous means lying, not being truthful. 

 

 

Can I point out that I came to this thread with a neutral-to-positive viewpoint, looking to learn more about X-Plane with a view to eventually making the switch? Someone defended X-Plane by describing is as "a new 64bit Sim just starting out and still in beta", a description which I queried and commented on. Now though, I'm feeling a distinct air of hostility here, except for a few cooler, wiser heads. I understand that the X-Plane community here feels somewhat besieged by some of the more vocal FSX die-hards, but guys... check your targets with that triple-A fire. There's two ways people can come into the X-Plane community, and if anyone who currently flies FSX and comes here with questions or concerns is going to be labelled as hostile, you're going to wind up shooting down an awful lot of potential friendlies that way.

Hostility happens when the questions are often laced with sarcasm ... it maybe the nature of the question and answer. I believe that both sides of the fence probably should take better care with their q & a with regard to how the emotive content may be perceived by the other party.  Sarcasm has no place among strangers and definitely ISN'T friendly.

 

With the question of Beta-ness all but settled, I return you to your regularly scheduled bickering about flight models and plausible world autogen.

 

Respectfully

 

Dr V

 

How is that last sentence respectful? It was probably meant in jest ... but you and I are strangers. We don't yet have a working experience of the hidden subtext in such a statement.

Agreed with the above. Until we see a major shift, of big player developers moving over to another platform be it XPX or something else, and they keep supporting and developing for FSX, that is where its mostly going to sit. I dont personally see much hint of devs saying, we are stopping our FSX development now and will be focusing on XXXXX.

 

I didn't see it in the news, but when were you named spokesman for the FSX community? Who's we lol? It would be nice if FSX developers move or port their work to X-Plane but is not necessary. Don't worry about it, someone will take their place in due time, that's exactly how free enterprise works.

 

You're free to enjoy the simulator(s) of your choice and so are we.

I bought my Xplane 10 and never installed it. Have sufficient add-ons been created?

"With the question of Beta-ness all but settled, I return you to your regularly scheduled bickering about flight models and plausible world autogen.

Respectfully

Dr V"

 

Respectfully-the fm has changed greatly since 10.20 and  the torque problem that in your words were "bickered about" in this forum seem to have been largely helpful into making this sim hugely better-at least in this department.  I would view this as a extremely positive thing and would think Xplaner's, especially those with no rw experience, would be excited with these improvements that increase reality, and thankful that some took the trouble to provide valuable input for this goal to help give  input into making xplane into the ultimate sim. I find the chastising and dismisal  of such input hugely damaging for flight simming on any platform-that is is if one really desires  a platform to improve. Really baffling....

 

Yes, plausible world is next for me, as though Europe looks very well done, my part of the world does not. I don't view it as bickering, as much as valuable input to make this sim much better-perhaps taking this sim at some point to where there will really be no need for debate as to which sim is the best platform. If it is taboo to talk about how a sim can improve-why have a forum? The pr. people can do a plentiful job of only praising a product-let the paid pros do that.

I bought my Xplane 10 and never installed it. Have sufficient add-ons been created?

hahaha, how many add-ons do you actually need? :lol: There are plenty add-ons for X-Plane 10. As a matter of fact, I'm willing to wager you don't have enough hard disk space to store them all...lol

 

Seriously though, there are a lot of free and payware products out there to keep you busy for a long time. What are your basic interests?

Hi there - I have been out of the sim world for almost a year. Now that I have more down time, I'd like to find out what's new (hardware and software). In terms of interest, I'd like to know what are the most popular add-ons for xplane and can you please share some video links so I can appreciate the scenery? THank you.

 

Be the way, this following is a video a made more than a year ago. I guess I am really out of date....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=huF9ibM7xxk

How could you know if X-plane 10 was sufficient to your personal requirements for a flight sim if you've never actually tried it, Huascar? I don't know about what is sufficient for you, but I know that the X-Aviation LES DC-3, the Jetstream 32 from Javier Rollon, the FlyJSim 727, any scenery from TruScenery or Aerosoft, the many great free airports available on the .org, and the New Zealand scenery freeware certainly have my attention.

 

Geofa: Yes absolutely, constructive criticism is always something that should be allowed to come to the discussion floor. X-plane has become better for it. Constant bickering and ignorant slander based on limited experience and seemingly personal crusades are not however. Often these forum strings devolve into the kind of dismal chastising that you refer to when someone else, often one of a well known band of dissenting commenters, brings up the same tiresome gripes about X-plane versus FSX and it snowballs from there.    

I bought xplane a week after it was released. I guess I wanted to wait until add-ons were created. I can't say whether it's good or bad since I've never tried it. I am neither being critical nor favorable to the product.

In my view there are just as many xplaners that bring up FSX as there are fsx'ers and many that jump on anyone that might point out a problem about xplane without ever mentioning another sim. What does the word " bickering" suggest for those that took much time and trouble to document the torque problem in the hopes it might be noticed and taken care of? I agree, the snowballing is never welcome but on the other hand not noticing , comparing , examining and sometimes even borowing from the competition -all of it-not just FSX, is a business practice that is usually deadly rw to those who do not do so. Existing in a vacuum is never a good thing.

 

 

Hi there - I have been out of the sim world for almost a year. Now that I have more down time, I'd like to find out what's new (hardware and software). In terms of interest, I'd like to know what are the most popular add-ons for xplane and can you please share some video links so I can appreciate the scenery? THank you.



Be the way, this following is a video a made more than a year ago. I guess I am really out of date....

 

Huascar, your video is great, loved it!

 

Currently, some of the very good payware addons are the R&P Boeing 777, the JRollon Jetstream J32, Tom Kyler just updated his Mitsubishi M2 for 64 bit compliance. Then, for the Airbus fans, Peter Hager has the A380, the A321 and A320 working in XPX, although the later two don't include a VC yet They're working on them.. Carenado are releasing GA aircraft for X-Plane on a regular basis. If you like scenery, TrueScenery have released some amazing Finnish airports. If you're inclined to favor freeware scenery, simheaven have terabytes of photoscenery available to download. Drawbridge design have a very nice US airport, Wilmington International. If you like older airliners, Leading Edge Simulations have a fantastic DC-3 on offer. They are also close to releasing a study sim of the Saab 340 that looks superb.

 

I've skipped a ton of things but others will chime in where I left off. :smile:

 

cheers

No problem. Honestly if I had purchased X-plane 10 when it was first released I would have probably shelved it for quite sometime myself. I did the same with version 9. I thought it was truly awful at first and put it aside for about a year. Then when the Mitsubishi MU-2 came out, I bought it and gave Xplane a second look. 

 

If you want to get an idea of some of the best X-plane has to offer right now, you should take a look at some of the videos done by redpiper1 on Youtube about X-plane. He does some beautiful videos which really show off the best of what the sim is capable of and he also give you a list of the add-ons used in the videos as well, so you know what to shop for.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUfa7iEZX6c 

In my view there are just as many xplaners that bring up FSX as there are fsx'ers and many that jump on anyone that might point out a problem about xplane without ever mentioning another sim. What does the word " bickering" suggest for those that took much time and trouble to document the torque problem in the hopes it might be noticed and taken care of? I agree, the snowballing is never welcome but on the other hand not noticing , comparing , examining and sometimes even borowing from the competition -all of it-not just FSX, is a business practice that is usually deadly rw to those who do not do so. Existing in a vacuum is never a good thing.

I disagree, wholeheartedly. This thread is a classic example of exactly why. No one is living in a vacuum here. Criticism is one thing but constant harassment is another. The changes in X-Plane you see today didn't come about because of the relentless pursuit of certain people to justify their bitterness.

All a matter of perspective. Xplane 10 would be collecting dust once again on my shelf except by the grace of those that dared to provide input. Harassment is a very good way of describing how some view constructive critics.

Firstly, the changes in X-Plane have not come about because of people continuously saying "there's too much torque roll" or anything else that was posted.  People posting X-Plane issues in these forums, for the sole purpose of thinking Austin Meyer will check them and make changes, have simply wasted their time.  The changes have come about from developer feedback with solid facts and figures and also from the people who have opted to take part in the beta testing of each new version and provided valuable feedback to Laminar.

 

Secondly, this whole thread has just gone full circle. It started civil, turned ugly, a mod came in to keep the peace, everyone settled down and now, it's back to where it was before the moderator came in.

Completely unproductive and gives new meaning to the term "beating a dead horse".

How does all this help AVSIM encourage more positive activity in their forums from the X-Plane user base?

It's been said before, no one minds constructive criticism.  But when the same thing is being posted, every.single.day from the same people, hostility is inevitable...even from the higher ups.

It goes from being constructive criticism to something far more negative and ultimately, ceases to be constructive.