Okay, thanks Dave.

 

Best regards,

Jim

Today I was told of an update to a purchase I made a little over a year ago, when I went to download the update at the FSPilotShop there was a notice that I had to pay 5 bucks to reactivate my account, I don't think so, what kind of crap is that. That's the only place I know of that you have to pay for an update, see ya FSPilotShop. :t0103:

 

Adam

What appears to be happening is that FSPilotShop a time limit on how long a file is available for free downloading.  

 

After that date you have to pay $5.00 to 'reactivate' the link. 

 

You can see the expiration date when you look at your order history and click on the "View" button.

 

While I don't disagree with their right to do so, it certainly seems to be a disincentive to purchase from them.

 

Ernie

 

 

I don't think so, what kind of crap is that.

 

And now you are out that add-on and will need to repurchase at full price somewhere else, or you could pay the $5.

No I can live without the update, i'll just make my purchases with vendors that don't charge you for an update, which is about 99% of them.

 

Adam

I'm glad the majority of us agree it is senseless to charge for a redownloaded fee. The price you pay should have already incorporated these costs into the final price just like distributed hard copies include the shipping and manufacturing cost.

Ah, so a person who downloads once and back up their download, should assume some of the cost of the person that downloads the same software 10 different times in a XX month period of time? I don't think so. I'll back up my downloads, and let someone else pay for not backing up theirs.

I back up all my software, but if they come out with a upgrade say from V1 to V1.6 after a year, that's not going to do much for ya now is it unless you pluck down 5 more bucks.

 

Adam

I back up all my software, but if they come out with a upgrade say from V1 to V1.6 after a year, that's not going to do much for ya now is it unless you pluck down 5 more bucks.

 

Adam

You absolutely nailed it there sir.

Today I was told of an update to a purchase I made a little over a year ago, when I went to download the update at the FSPilotShop there was a notice that I had to pay 5 bucks to reactivate my account, I don't think so, what kind of crap is that. That's the only place I know of that you have to pay for an update, see ya FSPilotShop. :t0103:

 

Adam

Contact FSPilotshop and ask them to reset your account.

 

I had this problem a while ago went I did an update for my Sierra that I sell via FSPS. The update was more than a year after the original planes release so most customers were outside the limit. This is, of course, a silly situation (having to pay $5 for an update).

 

The only solution was for individual customers to contact FSPS and ask them to reset the download date (why FSPS didn't reset all customer accounts when the update was made available is something only FSPS can answer)

1) What does FSPilotshop's "free file backup" mean?

2) Where can I read about those re-download fees before placing an order over there?

3) Has their re-download fee rule changed recently without explicit communication by the shop?

 

I don't really care what their ToS are like but I need those terms laid out and communicated properly before I would even register as one of their customers!

 

And, of course, a re-download as the only means to obtain an (otherwise free) update has to be free itself!

Ah, so a person who downloads once and back up their download, should assume some of the cost of the person that downloads the same software 10 different times in a XX month period of time? I don't think so. I'll back up my downloads, and let someone else pay for not backing up theirs.

This is how it always works. You also pay for other services, like helpdesks, while I never use them personally.

Also with taxes: I pay for childsupport for other people, I pay for people who are born being disabled, for roads I don't drive on..

Also with normal stores or company's: When you go to the supermarket, you actually pay for products being stolen by others as well.

When you go flying, you pay as much for fuel as a person three times your weight. And so on...

Because this isn't a perfect world, it would be nice if people weren't so rigid.

 

Why so keen on putting down here every little argument you guys can think of, of not giving out more service that comes at a very little cost.

Again, what are the costs of a download? They already have it available online and they already have lots of bandwith (if you own an online store, you already have those)

 

And how much do you think every person will download the same software over and over again? Daily?? Come on, this is a small amount of extra bandwith.

 

This isn't really about the subject anymore, just an internet argument everyone is trying to win. Or you have your own online store, and don't want people to get 'crazy' ideas about customer service.

 

The bottomline is, it is a great service to be able to download your purchase again if, whatever the reason, you don't have it available. And yes, it is smart to have your own back-ups, no one is saying otherwise. But it's not a perfect world, ###### happens, specially to those who aren't computer whizzkids.

This is how it always works. You also pay for other services, like helpdesks, while I never use them personally.

 

 

Finally, someone mentioned that! I was reluctant to bring it up, as a developer, but since you started it...

 

Yes, every cost that contributes to the overall business will be paid by every user, regardless if he will use that service or it or not. If it wasn't like that, the business wouldn't be able to sustain itself.

 

Some examples:

 

- Support cost

 

It costs money to have a support forum open to everyone (not just purchasers, but also prospective purchasers), but even if only 30% of users will ever register and post there, the cost will be paid by everybody, even those that don't need any help or are not bothered checking the forum for any reason.

 

The same is valid for email support, someone will have to pay for it, and since nobody (as far as I know) in the Flightsim business ever charges for email support or offers paid support plans, it's clear that support is included in the product price, so those without any need of support (which are the majority) will pay to maintain support for those that need it.

 

- Advertising costs:

 

This is paid by every customer, even those using Ad Blockers that will never see a banner, and those that already know the developer very well, frequent their forum and know everything about their future plans, so don't need any advertizing to be kept on top of things.

 

 

- Bandwidth costs:

 

We consume a lot of bandwidth, surely more than average, because we offer a free Trial for all installers.

 

This has the advantage that we don't have any "redownload" issue or fees, it simply doesn't apply, because the installer is always freely available.  And we don't store it on our servers either, both because it's just cheaper to use established cloud providers such as mediafire or dropbox, but also because the "what about if the developer server goes down in a few years" fear is addressed this way. We host mirrors of all our files both on mediafire AND dropbox so, in order to not be able to access the download, BOTH should go down.

 

All users will pay a little bit of this, even those that diligently backup all their downloads. But I find this to be way better than having to charge for extra downloads, because it gives more confidence before purchasing, so it results in more sales.

 

Bandwidth is not free, but the cost is reasonable when using dedicated cloud services (NOT when using your own server!!), and if we can afford them for everyone, including NON customers (those that download and decide not to purchase), if someone would have to charge for download for a minority (those the lose their installer) of registered customers, I'd say they selected the wrong bandwidth plan or provider.

 

From our point of view, we see bandwidth costs as advertising: offering a free Trial is way more effective than paying for banners, what better way to show the product, other than let it install it on user's systems ? Of course, the product must be *good*, otherwise you would have a large bandwidth bill, with not many purchases.

 

Maybe that's the main reason not so many developers have a free Trial freely accessible without any kind of registration, not all products out there are good enough to warrant a purchase AFTER they have been installed...some users might purchase something by impulse, just to see "how it looks like", but then regret it.

 

 

- Piracy protection.

 

Yes, this is the large elephant in the room that everyone is scared to discuss: this difference in policies and the very idea of having a Trial or free unlimited downloads will work or not depending how effective the piracy protection is.

 

With no anti-piracy protection, you must expect having all kind of troubles/costs accessing downloads. At the very least, you'll see difference in policies regulating downloads and re-downloads.

 

If there's an anti-piracy that works, you trade some inconvenience in activating/reactivating products when changing hardware, but you gain lots of freedom with everything regarding downloads/re-downloads, and of course if there's a Trial too (and its very availability strongly depends on how much effective the protection is), you get the advantage of being able to evaluate the product first, so it's very unlikely you'll ever purchase something you'll regret.

 

Yes, in an ideal world, it would be nice not having any download issues AND not having the inconvenience of activation tied to the hardware too, but it simply doesn't work in the flightsim business, because the only solution that would get you BOTH downloading freedom AND piracy protection without having to deal with reactivations when changing hardware, are the USB hardware keys. But they are too expensive to fit the typical Flightsim add-on price.

 

In the music software business, which was literally plagued by piracy only a few years ago, developers found a way to all gather behind a few USB hardware key systems which are shared between many products: you purchase ONE USB key once, for example the iLok, and that key can contain HUNDREDS of licenses from different developers, so you can just plug in and have all your iLok-aware products activated at once on the new PC.

 

That would be an ideal solution that protects both developer's rights and the user convenience and freedom, but I somewhat doubt that many Flightsim developers will ever agree on something like that, and of course spending 40-50$ on an USB key that you might use only for a couple of 30$ FSX add-ons, wouldn't make much sense.

I back up all my software, but if they come out with a upgrade say from V1 to V1.6 after a year, that's not going to do much for ya now is it unless you pluck down 5 more bucks.

 

Adam

A download of an upgrade the first time is not charged unless there is a fee for purchasing the upgrade, and the store has no say in that situation. Most free upgrades are hosted at the developers site anyway, so this argument hold no water.

Have you ever seen what hosting a file server costs per month?

 

So that large bank that charges more than $5 per service is really up to no good then?

 

Or you could personally back up your download.

 

Running a business costs money. Business makes money by attracting new customers and treating them well, which causes customers to return to buy more products. Punishing returning customers with hidden fees is not the right way, neither in banking, flight sim stores or any other business.

 

The only way to actually earn money from the re-download policies is to be deliberately vague about the policy so that customers only find out when it's too late. Otherwise those $5 will barely cover administrative costs, which would be way higher than the cost of a single download of a 100MB file.

 

I've chosen my bank based on various reasons such as customer service, ease of use of their online services and cost. Banks don't sell FSX add-ons though, so that's not really relevant.

 

I personally back up my files, but backups are no guarantee against data loss. For one, many make a back-up once and then don't validate the backup regularly. When they actually need the backup, the files are corrupted. There are other reasons you may want to re-download a full product, such as getting an up-to-date installer with all patches included.

 

If you enjoy paying for every download and keeping 5 separate backups (2 off-site) and validate them every month, as well as having to download service packs and patches separately, then by all means, stick with your online store. Personally I'll buy the same add-ons for the same price from a store that offers good customer service and enjoy the added security and convenience of having the files always available in the cloud.