I usually buy from the cheapest shops in town (town is our planet, including continents like North America, Australia and Europe) - and surprisingly hardly any of my download products requires a re-download fee ...

 

So much for the 'if they charge for re-downloads, the other customers will get better prices' argument.

 

Still haven't figured out where FSPilotshop placed their crystal-clear TermsOfService, regarding re-download fees ...

Finally, someone mentioned that! I was reluctant to bring it up, as a developer, but since you started it...

 

Yes, every cost that contributes to the overall business will be paid by every user, regardless if he will use that service or it or not. If it wasn't like that, the business wouldn't be able to sustain itself.

 

Some examples:

 

- Support cost

 

It costs money to have a support forum open to everyone (not just purchasers, but also prospective purchasers), but even if only 30% of users will ever register and post there, the cost will be paid by everybody, even those that don't need any help or are not bothered checking the forum for any reason.

 

The same is valid for email support, someone will have to pay for it, and since nobody (as far as I know) in the Flightsim business ever charges for email support or have paid support plans, it's clear that support is included in the product price, so those without any need of support (which are the majority) will pay to maintain support for those that need it.

 

- Advertising costs:

 

This is paid by every customer, even those using Ad Blockers that will never see a banner, and those that already know the developer very well, frequent their forum and know everything about their future plans, so don't need any advertizing to be kept on top of things.

 

 

- Bandwidth costs:

 

We consume a lot of bandwidth, surely more than average, because we offer a free Trial for all installers.

 

This has the advantage that we don't have any "redownload" issue or fees, it simply doesn't apply, because the installer is always freely available.  And we don't store it on our servers either, both because it's just cheaper to use established cloud providers such as mediafire or dropbox, but also because the "what about if the developer server goes down in a few years" fear is addressed this way. We host mirrors of all our files both on mediafire AND dropbox so, in order to not be able to access the download, BOTH should go down.

 

All users will pay a little bit of this, even those that diligently backup all their downloads. But I find this to be way better than having to charge for extra downloads, because it gives more confidence before purchasing, so it results in more sales.

 

Bandwidth is not free, but the cost is reasonable when using dedicated cloud services (NOT when using your own server!!), and if we can afford them for everyone, including NON customers (those that download and decide not to purchase), if someone would have to charge for download for a minority (those the lose their installer) of registered customers, I'd say they selected the wrong bandwidth plan or provider.

 

From our point of view, we see bandwidth costs as advertising: offering a free Trial is way more effective than paying for banners, what better way to show the product, other than let it install it on user's systems ? Of course, the product must be *good*, otherwise you would have a large bandwidth bill, with not many purchases.

 

Maybe that's the main reason not so many developers have a free Trial freely accessible without any kind of registration, not all products out there are good enough to warrant a purchase AFTER they have been installed...some users might purchase something by impulse, just to see "how it looks like", but then regret it.

 

 

- Piracy protection.

 

Yes, this is the large elephant in the room that everyone is scared to discuss: this difference in policies and the very idea of having a Trial or free unlimited downloads will work or not depending how effective the piracy protection is.

 

With no anti-piracy protection, you must expect having all kind of troubles/costs accessing downloads. At the very least, you'll see difference in policies regulating downloads and re-downloads.

 

If there's an anti-piracy that works, you trade some inconvenience in activating/reactivating products when changing hardware, but you gain lots of freedom with everything regarding downloads/re-downloads, and of course if there's a Trial too (and its very availability strongly depends on how much effective the protection is), you get the advantage of being able to evaluate the product first, so it's very unlikely you'll ever purchase something you'll regret.

 

Yes, in an ideal world, it would be nice not having any download issues AND not having the inconvenience of activation tied to the hardware too, but it simply doesn't work in the flightsim business, because the only solution that would get you BOTH downloading freedom AND piracy protection without having to deal with reactivations when changing hardware, are the USB hardware keys. But they are too expensive to fit the typical Flightsim add-on price.

 

In the music software business, which was literally plagued by piracy only a few years ago, developers found a way to all gather behind a few USB hardware key systems which are shared between many products: you purchase ONE USB key once, for example the iLok, and that key can contain HUNDREDS of licenses from different developers, so you can just plug in and have all your iLok-aware products activated at once on the new PC.

 

That would be an ideal solution that protects but the developers rights and the user convenience and freedom, but I somewhat doubt that many Flightsim developers will ever agree on something like that, and of course spending 40-50$ on an USB key that you might use only for a couple of 30$ FSX add-ons, wouldn't make much sense.

Thx for the detailed explanation interesting to hear from the Dev side

Back your downloads and keys included they are reciepts you keep incase your computer melts or you need to upgrade. Keeping backups is common sense Nowdays. Most online vendors will give you 3 downloads before you can't do it anymore, but if you exhaust them long as you have the receipts and the key still active most will reset the downloads to 3 let you download again.

Hope you don't mind adding RealAir Simulations to that list! We have customers re-downloading products from 2004 and have never charged a penny. We'd go further back than that except FS2002 products have not been asked for since round 2008. We do ask customers to check in with us if they want to install products over a (generous) certain number of times but that's to make sure the original customer and not a pirate is attempting to install. We have some customers who are reluctant to backup or keep their details so it can be a lot of work, and quite large bandwidth charges - in some cases wiping out any profit at all - but generally speaking customers are reasonable and fair.

 

We all lose stuff occasionally and I don't think vendors should exploit that. Asking for a backup fee in the first year is in my view bad practice.

 

Rob - RealAIr

 

Just wanted to say that this is one of the many reasons I love RealAir's products. In today's "cloud" age, there's no reason why a company should charge for an additional download. It's a money grab, pure and simple.

 

Case in point: anything I buy on the App Store, Google Play or Steam can be redownloaded at any time, no charge. If Apple, Google and Valve can do it with the volume of downloads they have, then there's no reason why flight sim devs can't.

Umberto Colapicchioni - VIRTUALI s.a.s.

Thanks for the business case that's a lot of typing....not really new news to me but perhaps some others.

 

You forgot, heat, lighting, office supplies, salaries, wages, insurance, telephone, fax, computers, general IT support, benefit plans, pension contributions, write downs, work in progress, coffee-sugar-milk, tea, overtime (maybe not).

Of course all those things go into running a business. 

 

Just don't be petty on downloads and charge and extra fee. 

I think the best way to put it here, is that unlimited free downloads is a service that a company gives, that goes way "above and beyond" what could be called, "required".

Companies, like PC Aviator, have every right to charge for future downloading of purchased products, but the very best distributors, such has Simmarket and Aerosoft, and even X-Plane.org, have chosen NOT to charge for those future downloads, and to provide a valued added service to their valued customers by having all of the products purchased from their web-stores, to be forever available to their valued customers for re-downloading, whenever it is needed.

Thus, I CHOOSE to give these premium distributors, who provide unlimited downloading, 95% of all of my business.  Distributors who charge for downloading will only get my business for products which I cannot get at my precious favorite flight sim distributors.

I buy very little from PC Aviator, or other distributors who will not allow me to re-download purchases that I have previously made.

Do they have to provide this added service?......NO!.....Do I have to buy from them......NO! It is as simple as that.  ^_^

PC Aviator's re-download policy:

 

https://www.pcaviator.com/store/pages.php?pageid=16#I Lost My Download And Need To Redownload My Software

Contact FSPilotshop and ask them to reset your account.

 

I had this problem a while ago went I did an update for my Sierra that I sell via FSPS. The update was more than a year after the original planes release so most customers were outside the limit. This is, of course, a silly situation (having to pay $5 for an update).

I'm glad you wrote that, Anthony. I was actually wondering about my FSS purchases regarding your fine planes. Indeed, it would be more than silly to pay extra for getting the free update.

 

I always recalled FSS as being one fine shop but I guess I might switch if the policy stays that way. When it comes to your planes, they also get sold at Simmarket, right? So there's no loss for the actual developer and the customer, just for that one shop. Does this 'solution' help them with e.g. server costs? :mellow: I'd say no.

 

I referred my thoughts to the wrong shop. Silly me. Thanks to Ernie for reminding me about that one.

I always recalled FSS as being one fine shop but I guess I might switch if the policy stays that way. When it comes to your planes, they also get sold at Simmarket, right? So there's no loss for the actual developer and the customer, just for that one shop. Does this 'solution' help them with e.g. server costs? :mellow: I'd say no.

 

FSS (aka FlightSim Store) isn't the vendor that the thread is referring to.. The topic was changed to reflect the vendor that the OP meant.

 

So, don't go dumping FSS just yet.  :mellow:

 

Ernie

Oops. I apologize. You are right. Even Anthony's post is correct, I've just read it the wrong way. :blush: Thanks for the HU, Ernie.

 

Leaves open the question on how much a shop gains through fees when new purchases later happen at other shops, because the customers switched.

Today I was told of an update to a purchase I made a little over a year ago, when I went to download the update at the FSPilotShop there was a notice that I had to pay 5 bucks to reactivate my account, I don't think so, what kind of crap is that. That's the only place I know of that you have to pay for an update, see ya FSPilotShop. :t0103:

 

Adam

 

As for charging members to download updates for their "expired" products, I find that disgusting, however perhaps the manufacturers website has those said updates available for download, if not you could try "other means" of getting your update, just because your link has expired does not mean your license key has expired.

Personally, I have no issue with the charge after a year. However, when a company announces a free update like Quality Wings, who have announced an update to SP3. I would not expect to have to pay for reactivation to get that update.

 

FSPilot have updated the file Feb 2014 but I can't get it unless I pay for reactivation. $5 dollars isn't a disaster but it's the principle in this case . . . .