I usually fly with full payload, with whatever fuel load is needed for the trip. I usually derate to D-TO-2/Clb-2 and sometimes add a assumed selected temp to about 87-88% N1. If I'm heavy I go a little higher. With that I usually get climb rates to 20K in the 2.5 to 3.0kfpm range, and lower up to cruise. These engines are rockets, and I find I have to derate them quite heavily.

 

Tom Cain

They 777 simply climbs like crazy.  It's nothing to be concerned about, since passengers can't tell how fast you're climbing.  Deck angle doesn't equal passenger discomfort. 

I agree with 777 simmer, maybe the issue is that past 80kts when the FMA annunciates HOLD the throttles will reposition themselves to where you have set them, if it was full forward then you will see the thrust go right to the stops, as the AT servos are disconnected at this point and maybe unknowingly you are commanding full thrust all the time, even though you have set a DE-RATE or ASSUMED temp.

 

Furthermore, you might want to try a lower flap setting, flap 5 should suffice for most take-offs and the climb angle is shallower.

 

Also make use of the FPV or flight path vector during take-off it is very useful, especially if you are at light weights and high thrust settings. Use the FPV and anticipate your level off altitude, remember level off should commence at a rate of approx 100ft per 1000ft of vertical speed. If your climb rate is 2000ft/min you should start your level off at least 200ft before reaching your desired altitude.  

 

Since in normal ops the 777 is always flown with the A/T on, your A/T FMA should annunciate SPD when you are at your level off altitude.If you are in THR REF or THR mode the aircraft will keep accelerating. If you are in HOLD mode and your thrust lever is set full forward you will keep accelerating so check your settings and please try again.

 

When you level off your vertical mode FMA should annunciate VNAV PATH, VNAV ALT or ALT.

 

In real life the 200LR is also a real hand full taking off, our golden rule is to pitch towards 15 degrees nose up and then adjust our speed to maintain V2+15 to V2+25. A proper rotation rate will leave you at V2+15 to V2+25 every time!

 

cheers,

 

Karl

Additionally, as noted, this idea that vertical speed is uncomfortable is a simism made worse by those stupid "passenger" programs.  The only time you feel something is acceleration.  V/S (vertical speed) is a speed, not an acceleration.  The change from level to any amount of V/S - more specifically, the rate of that change - would be an accelerative force.  So, if you change your V/S rapidly, then they'd feel that, but once established on a 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, or even 6000 fpm V/S, they wouldn't know the difference.  The only way they could tell is if they noticed the difference in the angle of the force of gravity.  This is normally straight down the spine, but the change in the climb angle would change that gravity vector somewhat through the chest.  The ability for a human to discern that change, however, is slim to none.  They could tell that they were climbing because they're leaned back some (including cues by the inner ear), but the rate is not felt.

 

The takeoff profile is a pitch-for-speed regime.  Set power, rotate, and pitch to hold the selected airspeed.

 

 

 

 

Your vertical speed does not matter.

(...)

 

 

 

Your vertical speed does not matter.

 

 

    Except for your passengers' ear pressure!!!    

 

(Still they won't "sense" the V/S you're commanding.)

 

    Except for your passengers' ear pressure!!!    

 

(Still they won't "sense" the V/S you're commanding.)

 

 

Right...

 

Well, when you can find a passenger who can tell, or is discomforted by 2000 fpm versus 6000 fpm in a pressurized aircraft, you let me know.  :wink:

 

The regime of such high vertical speed is so short that the pressurization not keeping up argument is moot.

Power and pitch equals performance. Basic Karmen airmanship. Remember, those GE-90's are the largest most powerful engines on any airplane. The diameter of those fans are larger than the diameter of a 737. Think about it.

Here's a little cheat I'm using:

Until some 777 profiles are released for TOPCAT, and some less-powerful 777 models are released by PMDG, I'm using the 747-400 TOPCAT profile and plugging in my 777's takeoff weight + 100,000 lbs, which is about the difference in MTOW between the 744 and the 77L.  Flaps 10 will be Flaps 5 in the 777 and Flaps 20 will be flaps 15 in the 777.

 

Now I know that I'm not taking into account many many things; takeoff performances being based on limitations like deceleration rates before the runway end, engine out climb performance (in theory it's a 25% loss in a 747 and a 50% loss in a 777), the fact that these two airplanes are different in almost every way possible, etc.  But since this is just a sim and I'm not a fan of rocketship-like takeoffs, I'm sacrificing that measure of realism to gain a reliable (and lazy-man's) reduction in performance without chasing charts.  This method has worked for me in every takeoff scenario I've had so far.

 

Even on light-weight takeoffs, things happen slowly enough to be manageable by a non-professional such as myself.    Thank you, Boeing, for de-rates!  Something the MD-11 didn't have.

 

-Tony Fiore

Simple solution to fast takeoffs. flaps 15 takeoff, derate to 50 degrees and set climb 2

It isn't. The T7 is designed to be flown with A/T on at all times.

 

 

Not exactly. Boeing may have intended that yes, but...

 

Some operators insist A/T on all the time. Some insist A/T off when hand flying approaches etc. And some leave it to the pilots discretion.

 

 

Boeing may have intended that yes, but...

 

Yes, therefore I said it was designed to fly with the A/T on. Because Boeing designed it, not operators  ^_^ 
Now, I can start my own crackpot airline and run F22s as passenger jets, because my airline is all sorts of awesome, but that isn't what the aircraft was designed for.. (unfortunately)

But it is not wrong for an airline to go either way with their SOPs.

Nothing crackpot about not using the AT!

 

The 777 is also designed to do Autolands.......but you dont have to do autolands on all Autoland capable runways either.

The only way they could tell is if they noticed the difference in the angle of the force of gravity. This is normally straight down the spine, but the change in the climb angle would change that gravity vector somewhat through the chest. The ability for a human to discern that change, however, is slim to none.

As a small addition to what you said:

 

Actually the human body can in fact discern that change. It will then proceed to completely misinterpret it . Absent visual cues it will feel like you are accelerating fowards. This is the gravito-somatic illusion. It's used in full motion flight sims to make it feel like the sim is accelerating despite the limited stroke of the supports. It has also been suggested as the cause of at least one aircraft crash that I know of (Afriqah A330 at Tripoli).

 

 

Will check it

And? Did you have a chance to check it?

Interessting discussion indeed, wanna add some words:

 

It´s really funny, how some controllers on IVAO and the VATSIM Networks are reacting, if you climb out a derated (D-TO1), atlantic-crossing-loaded T7 from e.g LOWW and approaching the TA(IA) of 5000ft in a "few" seconds.

 

It´s not possible to switch over from the TWR to the APP Controller within the hand-off timeframe, without level off at 5000ft  :rofl:              

 

"AUA87, are you flying a rock.., ahh it´s the T7! Climb Level 240."

 

I love my T7!

 

Regards