Nothing to see here

LOL...look at what forum you're in.

I'd like to be in a forum, in which the participants don't go off the deep end, to support an agenda. I'd prefer a bit more honesty, and perhaps knowledge, when it comes to deficiencies. There really is a lot of BS, that comes across this forum and others. The competition isn't close to dead...yet. The X-Plane flight model does have a major problem that's gone on for years.

 

I know, I'm the "bad" guy, that continually harps about the problem. I'm the one that got banned, and it appeared to make a few developers rather happy. I'm the one, that a developer or two doesn't care about, and am not worth discussing it with.

 

I am the one, that seemed to notice a problem with Austin's torque video.....as far as this forum goes. For everyone else, it was "there is torque" and checkmate from Austin. I guess I feel good, that Andy and someone else has some pull with Austin. I don't, and don't really care. All I care about, is setting a few flight dynamic facts, straight.

.....

To the person that mentioned no one working on FSX, as compared to a small group working on X-Plane. Has to do with MSFS leaving FSX behind, of course. In reality, it doesn't matter. Clear back in the beta-testing days for FSX, most third parties were sent copies of the betas. They were making their own adjustments to the flight models way back then. This was before the discs were even put on the market. Nothing is "locked" when it comes to the FSX flight model. I know this, because I was doing betas for third parties as well as Microsoft, at the time. The fact that MSFS left FSX behind, means very little, as far as farther development is concerned.

 

.....

That might have been me. I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean some third parties have source code for MSFS and can work on it? If they did, could it be done legally? If not, how will FSX ever get to be 64bit - or are people happy enough to retain it as a 32bit app into the foreseeable future? How will activation of the product be done if MS decide to shutdown their activation server? Is there a way around that?

 

I have FSX but am not a big user of it, so I don't really know how to get around these problems.

 

With regard to bugs, I'm sure there are plenty in XP. I guess it depends upon how many people are affected, and how the bug may affect as to functionality when they get fixed. If enough people log something as a bug with Laminar, it'll probably get noticed a lot faster than generally complaining on a forum that a vendor may or may not actually ever see. It seems to me that complaints tend not to go down very well on forums, however people are usually more than willing to help out (to the best of their ability) where another user has a problem. We should really be one big happy family of simmers

Larry-thanks for your honesty and integrity since I've known you at the beginning in the virtual flight simming world.

Unfortunately greed and $ seems to often over take truth in this virtual world-I've seen plenty to last a lifetime. Cheers to truth- beers on me if you ever get to so. Calif....and I thank Andy too who seems to have more influence than years of mentioning the same..as long as the job gets done- many years after. Truth be truth...

I am the one, that seemed to notice a problem with Austin's torque video.....as far as this forum goes. For everyone else, it was "there is torque" and checkmate from Austin.

 

It's not the way things are. Go check and read that thread again. When you replied to Austin's video with your observations, I was the _FIRST_ to reply to your post acknowledging your reasoning and saying that you seemed to be right. So, again, there is not closed mind here (at least for me). And I think I can speak for Jcomm and others too. Although (in general) strong X-Plane supporters, we always discuss with an open mind and are ready to acknolewdge its limitations. You probably remember only the posts in which I defended X-Plane, but if you go through my post history, you'll find a lot of (new and old) posts in which I'm critical about it. Years ago, I also noticed (probably the only person) a basic flaw in the equations of motions used in its flight model and contributed to correct it.

 

The truth is, probably you're a lot more closed minded than me regarding X-Plane. _Whenever_ anyone mentions that it prefers some specific aspects of X-Plane flight model, even if he may be right, or even if that specific aspect might be a highly subjective one, this always irks you, and you always feel the need to negate that, and/or to point to some other flaw in X-Plane flight model to belittle it. I think Geofa is more honest and balanced than you, regarding all of this.

 

An intellectually honest person wouldn't have 99% of his posts, in an X-Plane forum, either highly critical about X-Plane or trying to belittle its aspects.

 

 

EDITED after server downtime.

Guy's,

 

just my $0,02

 

This thread has made me somehow sad....

 

It started as an open comment on Froogle's stream, which I had the chance to watch ( not fully... but parts of it... ), and all I can say is that:

 

- I admire Froogle for his excellent way of giving all of us simmers his experienced long time simmer view on the future of this great X-Plane simulator we're all here to talk about !!!

 

I was completely unaware of Froogle until very recently, when I watched the first youtube where he spoke about X-Plane as a potential flightsim of the future.

 

Coming from the MSFS tradition, I take my hat to Froogle, and to anyone, being able to express his feelings, which are always intrinsically partial, in an impartial / unbiased ( as far as possible ) way!

 

Honestly that's what matters IMO. X-Plane IS a flight simulator with a LOT of potential and already offering a LOT of excellent features, capable of dragging MSFS users to it, even if cautiously, without taking a 100% plunge, simply evaluating, tasting it.

 

I have participated on many discussions about X-Plane 10, mostly when some aspects of it do not satisfy me. I am more of a critic than a "Whow-er" sometimes, I know, but I am, at the same time, perfectly capable of accepting the very simple fact that we just can't compare X-Plane to what was MSFS while it was actively being developed, in terms of the teams behind each project. Truth is, Austin created X-Plane as a private project to help him with is PPL. He later decided to market it, by an amount which was completely out of reach for me, but I kept trying X-Plane from version 1, using the demos, and at the beginning, still in times of FS5, it was way ahead of what we got in FS5 in as far as weather, for instance, was concerned, and also some very important aspects of the flight dynamics.

 

I am waiting for Austin's results after taking the time to look at some aspects some of us have been complaining for quite a while. It was expressed by him as a commitment, so, all I can do is being thankful to him for finally having found the time slot to dedicate to this particular subject, and wait for whatever he can bring us in a future 10.XX release. I will wait and see.

 

I am almost sure whatever comes out of Austin's approach to the "torque bug" will not be perfect at first. There will certainly be aspects that some of us will find not correctly modeled, and I'm sure Austin will try to make it converge towards a better solution, with time, probably only for the next version of X-Plane...

 

What matters, and I really would like to emphasize, is that THERE IS LIFE AT THE CORE of X-Plane, and that is, at least for me, a very important and probably the main reason for having embraced this simulator!

 

Of course there is also life in the core of DCS World, IL2 Battle of Stalingrad, LM Prepar3d, Aerofly FS, but honestly, all of the hype about the military sims goes to areas that I couldn't care less about. I really got tired of doing circuits in the p51d, or one of the excellent helicopters. I like AeroFly FS for sure, but... I miss navaids, additional weather modelling, a World coverage, day/dusk/night/dawn flying... Regarding LM P3D v2, I'm sure it's going to be a great step ahead in terms of graphics, performance, modularity and tools to build plausible scenarios, etc...., but the core fdm is MSFS's, the core weather engine is MSFS's.... 

 

I could try to play them all, but for me it is just way too much energy and money spent. I'd rather concentrate on a single, good enough platform, and X-Plane is that platform for me, at least for now :-)  ( I confess that in terms of alternatives, I only keep an eye on AeroFly FS v2 - it can bring us something worth the try, I believe... )

Apart from the great people who regularly comment and get involved in the X-Plane community here, the general X-Plane community for me gives of a scent which I'm sure drives people away, e.g.

 

1) Even though I've bought lots of products from X-Plane.org, I'm blocked from their forums. I have a dynamic IP address, so when I reboot the router, I can login, but soon afterwards my account gets banned. No idea why, and the moderator of the site isn't interested in helping, I've sent emails etc, and just get ignored. So, now I won't buy any more products from X-Plane.org, and unfortunately some developers only choose the have their addons there. When I do get into the forums, the general attitude of the moderators and users is disgusting and disrespectful to newbies. Way to go, scare of new users :-)

 

2) That post on X-Pilot just made me cringe and I felt embarrased for the community and saddened. Either way, you have a well-known FS blogger wanting to promote X-Plane, and he gets practically insulted by the superiority attitude that prevails within this community. The owner of the site sided with the developer, and this is now another site I won't buy anymore addons from. If, I'm missing out on a lot, oh well, that sucks, I'll just buy more FSX addons instead.

 

3) The actual attitude of laminar research. I don't know what their agenda is, but as someone else pointed out here, they seem to pretty comfortable having a small market share, and honestly don't seem to really care what users actually want. e.g. (Bringing this up again) lots of users want to control dials using the mousewheel, but the developer in his ultimate wisdom, states that is a bad UI design, and he won't do it. The real reason, I'm guessing is the superiority attitude, and the I know best, FSX users are dumb, etc..  

 

People here (including myself) complain about companies such as FTX and their forums (moderation). But the FTX community actually feels like a community, people are friendly, they don't insult newbies and make people feel welcome. This attitude goes a long long way to making people stick around and buy products. Which in turn, makes more products come out. The X-Plane community has a scare away newbies attitude, which makes me facepalm continually.

Apart from the great people who regularly comment and get involved in the X-Plane community here, the general X-Plane community for me gives of a scent which I'm sure drives people away, e.g.

 

1) Even though I've bought lots of products from X-Plane.org, I'm blocked from their forums. I have a dynamic IP address, so when I reboot the router, I can login, but soon afterwards my account gets banned. No idea why, and the moderator of the site isn't interested in helping, I've sent emails etc, and just get ignored. So, now I won't buy any more products from X-Plane.org, and unfortunately some developers only choose the have their addons there. When I do get into the forums, the general attitude of the moderators and users is disgusting and disrespectful to newbies. Way to go, scare of new users :-)

 

2) That post on X-Pilot just made me cringe and I felt embarrased for the community and saddened. Either way, you have a well-known FS blogger wanting to promote X-Plane, and he gets practically insulted by the superiority attitude that prevails within this community. The owner of the site sided with the developer, and this is now another site I won't buy anymore addons from. If, I'm missing out on a lot, oh well, that sucks, I'll just buy more FSX addons instead.

 

3) The actual attitude of laminar research. I don't know what their agenda is, but as someone else pointed out here, they seem to pretty comfortable having a small market share, and honestly don't seem to really care what users actually want. e.g. (Bringing this up again) lots of users want to control dials using the mousewheel, but the developer in his ultimate wisdom, states that is a bad UI design, and he won't do it. The real reason, I'm guessing is the superiority attitude, and the I know best, FSX users are dumb, etc..  

 

People here (including myself) complain about companies such as FTX and their forums (moderation). But the FTX community actually feels like a community, people are friendly, they don't insult newbies and make people feel welcome. This attitude goes a long long way to making people stick around and buy products. Which in turn, makes more products come out. The X-Plane community has a scare away newbies attitude, which makes me facepalm continually.

Wow, Tony!!  Painting a LOT of people with the same brush.

 

If Mathijs Kock (Aerosoft "management") disagreed with you, or said something nasty to you, or to anyone else (and believe me, he has done so in the past in the Aerosoft forums), would you completely boycott Aerosoft??  They have some incredible add ons, many of which I own.

 

Boycotting an entire publisher is a little drastic. X-Plane.org has some amazing add ons, both in scenery and aircraft. At least some of the developers who created those add ons very likely do not share some of the moderators opinions.

Same with X-Aviation. Many top tier add ons. You're going to let the opinions of 1 programmer deter you from purchasing aircraft and scenery to make your installation of X-Plane more enhanced??

@Tony:

 

I understand your words Tony, and my feelings are, unfortunately, with you in some aspects you've focused on.

 

Regarding X-Plane.org, I too have a dynamic IP and never got blocked.

 

Sometimes my router's IP belongs to a POP at the town of Porto, hundreds of kms away from where I live, and it can "travel" to other centers used by my provider, but still I never had any problems logging into or buying from the .ORG

 

I also don't think that Austin or LR don't care about the user community width... They're certainly not short-sighted, and let's not forget what they already did in the life cycle of X-Plane 10...and the size of the team working on it, even if with some important work by some well known payware and freeware devs...

 

On the OP, Froogle has did it's best to focus on add-ons, and the overall detail / quality of X-Plane 10, all reasons that justify the increasing number of users interested in it.

 

We already have excellent 3pds, providing all sorts of add-ons, even if in much smaller numbers than what is available for FSX, and sometimes also with a degree of usability / depth that can't yet reach those of the top-notch add-ons available for FSX, but we must give X-Plane some time, and try to enjoy the most out of what it already offers...

 

I recently got Felis's An-24 - that's detail, quality, complexity, great graphics and performance. I also got the FF WL 777, but hadn't used it that much because I was on FSX with the PMDG 777. Now I am beginning to discover the immersive simulation in it. The great Carenados I own are among my preferred GA aircraft, as well as the MU-2. The LES Saab 340 which I didn't yet get the chance to buy will certainly be yet another positive surprise, specially after they address the performance glitches, some great GA aircraft are available freeware, from sites like XPFR, and the .ORG. There is also World scenery, and a tool which I really have to start using - WED - allowing everyone to easily populate airports and other places with various types of objetcs. UbanMAXX Extreme, and the upcoming SkyMAXX Extreme, plus all of the work by Alpilot, PilotBalu, and others are also helping to turn the plausible World in X-Plane 10 even more plausible...

 

Then, for me, who am always looking primarily at the flight dynamics, being able to use Plane-Maker to fine tune various aircraft models is a great experience. I used many tools with FSX, but was never able to reach the same results or to do it so easily!

 

It's getting there, from day to day :-)

Goran its called:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_bias

Apart from the great people who regularly comment and get involved in the X-Plane community here, the general X-Plane community for me gives of a scent which I'm sure drives people away, e.g.

 

1) Even though I've bought lots of products from X-Plane.org, I'm blocked from their forums. I have a dynamic IP address, so when I reboot the router, I can login, but soon afterwards my account gets banned. No idea why, and the moderator of the site isn't interested in helping, I've sent emails etc, and just get ignored. So, now I won't buy any more products from X-Plane.org, and unfortunately some developers only choose the have their addons there. When I do get into the forums, the general attitude of the moderators and users is disgusting and disrespectful to newbies. Way to go, scare of new users :-)

 

2) That post on X-Pilot just made me cringe and I felt embarrased for the community and saddened. Either way, you have a well-known FS blogger wanting to promote X-Plane, and he gets practically insulted by the superiority attitude that prevails within this community. The owner of the site sided with the developer, and this is now another site I won't buy anymore addons from. If, I'm missing out on a lot, oh well, that sucks, I'll just buy more FSX addons instead.

 

3) The actual attitude of laminar research. I don't know what their agenda is, but as someone else pointed out here, they seem to pretty comfortable having a small market share, and honestly don't seem to really care what users actually want. e.g. (Bringing this up again) lots of users want to control dials using the mousewheel, but the developer in his ultimate wisdom, states that is a bad UI design, and he won't do it. The real reason, I'm guessing is the superiority attitude, and the I know best, FSX users are dumb, etc..  

 

People here (including myself) complain about companies such as FTX and their forums (moderation). But the FTX community actually feels like a community, people are friendly, they don't insult newbies and make people feel welcome. This attitude goes a long long way to making people stick around and buy products. Which in turn, makes more products come out. The X-Plane community has a scare away newbies attitude, which makes me facepalm continually.

I agree with every single word you wrote.

 

 

Wow, Tony!!  Painting a LOT of people with the same brush.
 
If Mathijs Kock (Aerosoft "management") disagreed with you, or said something nasty to you, or to anyone else (and believe me, he has done so in the past in the Aerosoft forums), would you completely boycott Aerosoft??  They have some incredible add ons, many of which I own.

Boycotting an entire publisher is a little drastic. X-Plane.org has some amazing add ons, both in scenery and aircraft. At least some of the developers who created those add ons very likely do not share some of the moderators opinions.
Same with X-Aviation. Many top tier add ons. You're going to let the opinions of 1 programmer deter you from purchasing aircraft and scenery to make your installation of X-Plane more enhanced??

 

I didn't mean to paint a lot of people with the same brush, but unfortunately the loudest people in the X-Plane forums are often the ones who rub up people the wrong way. As for the .org, it's the moderators and veteran users who are the worst. I thought x-aviation was mostly free from that attitude, and one developer (who can say what he wants as he is supposed to have developed some essential addon), did rub me up the wrong way, and people who took offence by this were threatened with being banned.

 

As for aerosoft, If I go into a company's forum and start knocking their products and they ban me, then personally I'd understand why they banned me, but as for the .org, I don't know what I've done. Maybe it seems a bit harsh in regards to X-Aviation and I'm just ranting, but with X-Plane.org, I think it's pretty much justified. I've done nothing wrong on their forums, I've not argued with anyone, etc, but don't want to give my money to a site who has no respect for me as a customer or to new X-Plane users. I'd rather give the developer the money directly through Paypal or some other means, unfortunately this isn't always possible.

A lot was discussed in the X-Pilot thread.  And at the risk of repeating what was already said, not very many people knew who Froogle was and he understood the initial response towards him.  Believe me, a LOT of people claim to be reviewers and those same people ask for free products.  

I've already mentioned that I personally emailed Pete within 24 hours of the original post.  And my email, literally, began with an apology, followed by my willingness to provide him with a free copy of the Saab.  After all, he reviewed the DC-3 which was also supplied without cost to him.

Don't limit your purchases based purely on "emotional bias".  You're losing a lot for very little.

I was just over at the X-Pilot forums reviewing the thread, it's just pitiful really. The only good thing that I got from it was a suggestion from

atomicfrawg

 

to get the SAAB 340, which I think I will, in due time

I watched all 3 hours of Froogles livestream yesterday (thankfully it was recorded) and I was so so glad to see developers had given him review copies. I'm dying to get the S-92 now (Irish coast guard one flew over me just as I'm writing this, ironic), not to mention John's SkyMAXX! What a great preview that livestream was!

I didn't read the thread to the end, and I'm really glad it didn't scare Froogle off :-)