Avsim does have a store but as far as I know avsim does not ban people for discussing products sold at X-aviation or other sites, pay off reviewers, pressure developers.....

 

That is correct, and we also do not ban people for having issues with product in our "Market" (yes, there is a difference). What we will do is warn, suspend and then ban for users that go way over the top against any product or dev. As I just did with you. Take it to extremes on any subject, and you will feel the touch of one of our moderators.

That is correct, and we also do not ban people for having issues with product in our "Market" (yes, there is a difference). What we will do is warn, suspend and then ban for users that go way over the top against any product or dev. As I just did with you. Take it to extremes on any subject, and you will feel the touch of one of our moderators.

 

 

That is fair.  That last comment I made was a little over the top. 

That is fair.  That last comment I made was a little over the top. 

 

Yes it was. I fought Peter Tishma tooth and nail for over a year and a half (not to mention educating American Airlines' lawyers) on behalf of the flight sim community and I can categorically state that the individual you compared him to, whom I also know, is no where close to being a PT. Not even a clip of a fingernail worth.

This is probably why most of us chose AVSIM for the most part of our simming forum activities...

 

I wouldn't go to X-Plane.org to discuss the SAAB or SkMAXX Pro ( although I've been tempted to start a thread on this last one...), not because I fear being banned, but rather because it would be uncomfortable for those who were willing to reply...

 

At the same time, I seldom post at the X-pilot forums, but I would certainly avoid going there to talk about Carenado products or even those by JARDesign or FF, although I am sure such a post would be accepted. Even so, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing so...

 

Here at AVSIM I really feel FREE to talk about any products, in anyway I choose to, provided I keep my language and expressed feeling within what is commonly accepted as correct. That is why I have so many posts here, and so few at other forums, X-Plane or other products....

 

I believe I could equally do it at FLIGTSIM.COM ( never had any problems there, and can talk freely at the various flightsim platform forums), but the fact is that the most part of my simmer fellows are here at AVSIM.

 

In the past, some 10 yrs ago, I used to post a LOT at the Portuguese SIMFLIGHT forum ( airsim.net, run by our "Tom" - Jorge Diogo ), but the crisis around here ( Portugal and our sister Spain ) has made life rather complicated for those who would like to spend more time and money with their flight simulation passion... Most have gone searching for a better life / future elsewhere, others have faced layout or severe cuts in their salaries, and were forced to "get real".... :-/... and the forum activity is practically nonexistent...

 

To make it short. I'd say  that at AVSIM I Really Feel at Home!!! 

 

( and a good chance now to express my gratitude to Tom, and the whole AVSIM Team, for making this possible, for all of us!!! )

 

 

At the same time, I seldom post at the X-pilot forums, but I would certainly avoid going there to talk about Carenado products or even those by JARDesign or FF, although I am sure such a post would be accepted. Even so, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing so...

 

I can categorically state that I have never-ever experienced censorship of any kind, nor have I been made to feel uncomfortable talking about one of my favourite aircraft; the Carenado C90B on the X-Pilot forums. That dynamic does not exist there.

 

I find AVSIM to be of a similar vein, and find a good cross-section of information about the 3 different sims here.

 

Cheers, Kris P.

AVSim is a good place.  I have been around xplane for a couple years now and have accounts on both of the other sites but rarely go there as xplane is not my main flight sim so I get everything I want here.

 

    I must say the thread has been an eye opener for someone who didn't know any of this and an education as I could very have easily gone to the org and asked questions about competitors products not knowing the situation - that there were competitors.

I believe the best place for a dedicated X-plane forum would be with X-Plane.COM itself because X-Plane.com is interested in one thing only; to promote X-Plane.

The level of impartiality necessary for me to feel absolutely comfortable discussing all aspects of X-Plane, would require that a site must only have the singular purpose to promote and be a knowledge store-house for X-Plane.

Every other site that I'm aware with X-Plane forums (including AVSIM), also maintain a store that sells flight sim products (X-Plane or otherwise).

Regardless of whether a site is benign or not in the maintaining of its vested interests, it is always possible that directions might change in some different future dynamic.

 

Cheers,

Kris P.

 

I couldn't agree more.  I will reiterate what I touched on before, that I was totally baffled when posting on x-plane.org that almost all my questions resulted into suggestions to buy something.

 

I was trying to figure out how to taxii and was scolded harshly for not accepting the fact that you couldn't taxii without buying expensive equipment.

 

I didn't believe it and tried to get some clarification.  No one posting in the thread acknowledged that it was possible out of the box.  At least one user gave me a link to download his software resolution, then scolded me for continuing with my question when he had told me to download his software.

 

I since discovered on my own that I could taxii with the equipment that I have.  I have also learned that you can configure the mouse for it.

 

I even explained that I was trying to recommend X-Plane to my friends and their children who wouldn't be ready to spend hundreds of dollars on hardware just to explore/checkout the hobby.  If I could use it without expensive equipment (of which I might buy in the future) I could show them how to.

 

Also, I get lots of spam from x-plane.org trying to sell me things.  I never got around to it but I was going to call Laminar Research to tell them to stop sending me those ad's.  I was only interested in X-Plane for now.

 

But again, this thread has educated me that it's not LR that is spamming me.  I now have renewed respect for them.

 

They could save their customers a lot of problems by having an official website that they could control and would be about X-Plane, and not a campaign to piggyback money from the customer.

 

I'm not saying (as I mentioned in my previous post) that X-Plane.org is wrong to be all about money.  But it's a serious problem when an LR customer gets caught up with thinking they are required to buy all that expensive gear just to explore their product.

 

I believe this is a very important message and thread that LR needs to monitor.  If they think I'm wrong about the spam I get, let them test a concept as a new user and log in to what they think is an official support form for LR and watch their bombardment of spam, even before they post their first message after signing up.  Then after posting, they will see a huge increase of spam (from X-Plane.org).

 

When I register a product, purchase something, register to a site, or put my email address on anything, I am always careful to decline product sells and suggestions.  When I signed up for X-Plane.org, if they gave me that option, they either ignored my choice or it wasn't there.

 

I have never in my 10 years of being a registered user of Avsim, received a single email from them selling me anything.

 

I have since studied my profile looking for a option to get off the store list and to only receive topic notices and forum announcements... I can't find it.  I will take this up with X-Plane.org.

 

I'll continue my activity there, but make it clear that I'm not trying to buy something, just trying to participate and contribute to the X-Plane community, by learning and being available to help other users when I can.

 

Again, before reading this thread, I thought I had to appear as if I were going to buy something to get input from my forum/X-Plane support messages.  I was given cold shoulders when I tried to keep my topics on the support of X-Plane itself and not addon hardware and software.

 

By the way, after communicating with .org about the spam, if it's resolved, I'll post a update to this post that is became resolved.  I'll even post an apology if there was an obvious way to be excluded from the spam... but again, I can't find it.

 

I understand that X-Plane.org doesn't have any control over users sending each other spam.  For me, that doesn't happen.  The message headers shows very clearly that the spam is coming from constantcontact.com (who had been blocked by my spam filters of which I had to unblock to receive .org forum notices).

 

I don't mean to bash the company for their choice to have a market rather than form to support X-Plane.  It's LR that I'm hoping will look to an X-Plane support forum.  In the meantime, I'm very pleased to learn there is a place that hopefully others will discover (avsim) that can actually provide X-Plane support without shoving their store down the users' throat.  The store is available, but not make to appear as a requirement for participating on the forum.

 

If someone tries to sell me something, I'm glad to feel at ease to say I'm not looking to buy at this time, but to learn what's in the X-Plane package itself.  Then I hope to be able to go a step further to feel free to discuss feature request if X-Plane is lacking the ability... in this case the ability to taxii without purchasing an expensive yoke.

 

-- L. James

 

-- 

L. D. James

[email protected]

www.apollo3.com/~ljames

X-Plane.org has a long history in the community.  It started as a free site where all developers posted their freeware work

in the late 1990's.

At the time the community was very small and there was no payware.  I joined in around XP v5 which was released in 1999.

The whole community was build around the registry of freeware at .org, so basically one can say that we aircraft designers

built the org.  Or the Borg as we called it.  At the time there was no hosting of files etc so we designers had to host our own

files vis ftp.  Bandwidth was really expensive, so the org struggled to stay alive financially and we all had to donate several

times to save it.

 

The .org changed owners a few times that period and some of the owners/moderators behaved like dictators and didn't

always get along very well with the designers.  Mass banning, censorship etc.   So at this point many key designers decided to

break out from the .org and take their aircraft with them.  We also started free hosting of files and a new registry and this almost killed the .org.

Everyone then again came to their senses and the Borg again got new friendly owners and everyone started putting their files there again.

 

The most recent owner however again took it in the wrong direction especially with his censorship policy.

This off course is motivated by trying to keep it's status as the main site for XP payware, while using the freeware (designer made)

registry as a magnet.  Problem is that this policy undermines the growth and diversity of the community which X-Plane really needs - which again pi**** off the designers, community and LR. 

 

Lately things appear to have improved, censorship seems not to be as strong anymore. The Borg also no longer has the same status

in the community that it used to have.   Many new players have entered the field so I'm not worried about XP's future.

 

M

 

 

All I know is somebody should be pounded for coming up with that Christmas Forum Theme!!!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

All I know is somebody should be pounded for coming up with that Christmas Forum Theme!!!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Its pretty easy to turn it off if you don't like it.

Its pretty easy to turn it off if you don't like it.

I did. Instantly.  :ph34r:

 

(Well.... after I took a moment shake off the effects of the Compuserve flashback)  :lol:

 

 

All I know is somebody should be pounded for coming up with that Christmas Forum Theme!!!

 

How do you come up with a Christmas Scene out of a few snow people, and a snowflake or two? It looks like a winter scene to me, which i guess if you live in Equatorial Africa wouldn't make much sense. Although it is summer in OZ too, 

 

I might add the org does support freeware,as well as payware and has quite a lot of freeware files.

 

Just felt the need to be a devils advocate. Truth is I seldom go to he org myself. LOL

I was totally baffled when posting on x-plane.org that almost all my questions resulted into suggestions to buy something.

 

Apollothethird,

I had a look at the thread you mention and I didn't see anyone trying to sell you product.

I'd add that the advice given was generally sound advice and presented in a neutral and informal manner.

 

Barbarossa provides a lot of freeware and I also saw nothing but a genuine desire to help you.

 

The tone of your post here is unfair and an untrue representation of the situation (as I read it anyway).

Apollothethird,

I had a look at the thread you mention and I didn't see anyone trying to sell you product.

I'd add that the advice given was generally sound advice and presented in an informal manner.

 

Barbarossa provides a lot of freeware and I also saw nothing but a genuine desire to help you.

 

The tone of your post here is unfair and an untrue representation of the situation (as I read it anyway).

 

Hi, pyoski.  I expressed my appreciation in that thread for the support that is provided.  I also expressed my appreciation in this thread for the support that they provide.

 

I also understand work and attention that goes into software development and appreciate what Barbarossa does for the community.

 

In this case, I was trying to get support for X-Plane the way it is in the box so that I could understand it.  I do expect to eventually expand on hardware and software.  But I tried to explain that I was looking to learn the bare dynamics of the X-Plane package.

 

I felt very uncomfortable going further when I was given the software resolution.  Barbarossa said to the group that I had ignored him.  I hadn't.  I had downloaded the software, and was comparing it to the virgin X-Plane.  I was trying to have a learning experience with X-Plane.

 

Andy is very helpful also.  However, he said, "Don't feel bad - I suspect you're not alone."

 

I was new.  I thought I was talking to LR.  I had to resolve to explore more of the details on my own.  I figured out what I was looking for.

 

No one in that thread was trying to market off me.  I believe you thought, that was what I was saying.  But it wasn't.  My reference to marketing is the spam that I receive.

 

Again, I used FSX in an after-school program teaching children to fly.  I'm looking to do the same with X-Plane... the after school program, my friends and their families, as well as my Nieces and Nephews.  So some of my questions are not die hard about getting the most advanced addons, hardware and software.  I try to, for some degree, figure out how to use X-Plane in such a way that I can get others started.

 

I was new, and suggested to get foot pedals as the least expensive way to go.  Again, I thought it was LR telling me that I needed all that.

 

I know now that a third party place might not be as devoted in delving as deep into the actually application as the developers themselves.  X-Plane would be a component, then there would be the best, aircraft, the best scenery, and so forth.

 

There are excellent tutorial on .org.  I appreciate all the contributions and believe it's great.  But again, I was taken abase when going over the tutorial it started out by suggesting to download (freeware) a different plane from the X-Plane's default C-172.  I didn't understand why they didn't just put the components into the X-Plane distribution.  This was my confusing because I thought I was on the developer's site.

 

In this message I was responding to the need of LR to provide an official forum themselves so that the users could more easily get support for X-Plane itself without giving the impressing that they are brushing off the users who are suggesting workarounds.

 

Because I was giving the impressing that I was brushing off the gracious people who were offering help, I didn't feel comfortable to ask questions about the built-in ATC, which I'm very interested in.  I was about to ask questions, but I always research first.  All the threads I found with buitin-ATC questions were brush off to the user, not to bother with it.  Again, I as confused because I didn't understand why LR was telling their users not to bother with the features they were trying to provide to their customers.

 

Again, no vendor tried to sell me anything on the forum.  I'm bombarded with sells in email that is coming from the site.  My reference to the forum itself had a lot to do with suggesting alternatives outside of X-Plane, and the people giving the suggestion showing (appearing to me to be showing) brushed off impressing if the suggestions weren't heed.

 

By the way, I reread my message here, and I can see how it may have appeared more callous and ungrateful than intended.  I appreciate your patience to give some benefit of doubt, as your reference, "As I read anyway".

 

My message was an AMEN to the one I replied, as a suggestion and why LR should get a support forum.

 

-- L. James

 

-- 

L. D. James

[email protected]

www.apollo3.com/~ljames

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