How 'bout we just drop this altogether and go do some flying?  :friends:

 

Amen!  Best post in this entire thread.

Let's discuss P3Ds EULA, that'll get this thread to finally end.

Let's discuss P3Ds EULA, that'll get this thread to finally end.

 

No it won't. It will just get those that do post about that subject banned from this topic and it won't ever get closed until I get a public answer from Dan.

 

 

What makes you think "but that may well change in the near future as well." referring to AVSIM? What do you know that I don't? Our allegiance has always been to our community members. To imply that we might not maintain that allegiance and suddenly change it to some commercial self-interest does demand an explanation.

 

I'm not Dan (obviously ) ... but I think that there's no guile or treachery hidden in the comment. It looks more like a semantic issue to me; as no one knows what the future holds! Dan might have simply been pointing out that things can change, and of course that is true.

 

The unsettling thing about suspicion is that it nearly always derails the way to peace ... and the hardest thing is really letting go! 

 

May peace and goodwill prevail among all parties ... life is way too short my friends!

What I meant with "but that may well change in the near future as well" actually played itself out in this very forum topic.  Tom understandably took it as meaning that HIS allegiance to the community was being put in scrutiny or questioned, whereas what I was referring to is, that this forum is becoming a battleground for OTHERS, who do not have said intent or allegiance… perhaps unbeknownst to forum members or admins.  The way this forum topic has unfolded is exactly what I meant by "in the near future."  

 

I see several forum rules have been breached in this thread, especially in terms of the rule about deceptive practices, redirecting traffic, commercial users and advertising, threats and intimidation, other flight sim sites, etc.  (Basically, a lot). 

 

Now, I considered reporting this to a mod, but then thought it'd be better I attempt to get in touch with Tom about it, basically with the question whether there was perhaps an unseen agreement at play that I may not have known about, maybe some sort of arrangement with those involved in the X-Plane side of this site, or whether perhaps I was misunderstanding something.  Since Tom was travelling, I thought it best to sit tight, until I got the facts.  

 

 

Well, it seems as though my assessment was correct, although my intent was in no way to IMPLICATE Avsim; quite the opposite.  It was to WARN Avsim about the battle for exposure that is currently unfolding on this otherwise relatively neutral site.  The misunderstanding arose from Tom assuming I meant that HIS or AVSIM'S stance might change toward the community in the near future, whereas I meant that this site may soon become an unwitting HOST to a dynamic that cares more about business than community, through underhanded and non-transparent means, thus AFFECTING the nature of this community.  

 

It's like in my analogy, the park where people discussed burgers, just became the unwitting site of some gang warfare for turf, which affected those who just thought they were getting together to have a good time and all just get along.

 

It's tough to have insight into it, and see what exactly is going on, especially if there's deception at play…. and this is exactly something I was foreseeing in my (admittedly, quite lengthy) initial post as well.

 

 

The unsettling thing about suspicion is that it nearly always derails the way to peace ... and the hardest thing is really letting go!

 

Whenever questions or innuendo regarding AVSIM's intentions are made, "letting go" is not an option. I am not going to allow a statement to be made that could raise questions in the minds of our community members to go unchallenged or unexplained. So, "letting go" for us, is not an option.

EDIT: Removed. Waste of time trying to get through to the individual this was intended for. 

I hope I'm able to reciprocate the same level of respect you have given in our dialog. I respect your pov however, as you suggest the other person probably didn't lose any sleep over this but what they have lost is a sale and a returning customer. I can live with this "self denied enjoyment" outcome until either the product in question is offered elsewhere or the establishment is under new management.

 

How 'bout we just drop this altogether and go do some flying? :friends:

Sounds good to me, Blaze.Just didn't want to think of you perhaps missing out on something fine if by chance,found only offered on the org .

I hope someday avsim becomes the place where most people go to discuss X-plane. .  The problem we have now with X-plane.org is  it exists for the sole purpose of cornering  the X-plane add-on market.  While this is great for the owner of .org it is HORRIBLE for the hobby.  Laminar has also had a hand in creating this problem, they have done nothing to keep new users from thinking .org  is the official X-plane forum.  

 

My hope is that Once the IXEG 737 releases and once PMDG gets products out for X-plane that will start to move the user base away from the .org. I strongly doubt either of these products will be sold at .org and PMDG will continue most likely use avsim for x-plane support.

I believe the best place for a dedicated X-plane forum would be with X-Plane.COM itself because X-Plane.com is interested in one thing only; to promote X-Plane.

The level of impartiality necessary for me to feel absolutely comfortable discussing all aspects of X-Plane, would require that a site must only have the singular purpose to promote and be a knowledge store-house for X-Plane.

Every other site that I'm aware with X-Plane forums (including AVSIM), also maintain a store that sells flight sim products (X-Plane or otherwise).

Regardless of whether a site is benign or not in the maintaining of its vested interests, it is always possible that directions might change in some different future dynamic.

 

Cheers,

Kris P.

I believe the best place for a dedicated X-plane forum would be with X-Plane.COM itself because X-Plane.com is interested in one thing only; to promote X-Plane.

The level of impartiality necessary for me to feel absolutely comfortable discussing all aspects of X-Plane, would require that a site must only have the singular purpose to promote and be a knowledge store-house for X-Plane.

Every other site that I'm aware with X-Plane forums (including AVSIM), also maintain a store that sells flight sim products (X-Plane or otherwise).

Regardless of whether a site is benign or not in the maintaining of its vested interests, it is always possible that directions might change in some different future dynamic.

 

Cheers,

Kris P.

 

 

Avsim does have a store but as far as I know avsim does not ban people for discussing products sold at X-aviation or other sites, pay off reviewers, pressure developers..... LOL There are devs that work for laminar that are banned from the .org for not falling in line and being a good little know know what.....     I could go on for hours..  LOL

 

I seriously can not understand why Laminar allowed .org to use a name that sounds so official. I assume he has the name X-plane copyrighted?  Years ago I was on staff of a large  Ford Mustang forum about the size of avsim, Our name was ok but Ford went after some forums that were using the blue oval, ford or mustang in the forum name.  These Names and logos were copyrighted and I remember some sites had to change logos or put up disclaimers.  

 

EDITED OUT. That statement was in strict violation of our Terms of Service. DO NOT do that again.  

Edited December 7, 201312 yr by Tom Allensworth
Violation of our Terms of Service.

It's been so sad to read this thread. I hope the X-Plane forum here at Avsim does not turn into a battlefield between commercial sites battling for attention and trying to bring down the competition by "bad-mouthing" them. Please act like professionals. Your products deserve that and so do your customers.

A I mean webstore.   I am so curious to see how he reacts when his near monopoly on airliners ends with the release of the  IXEG 737( CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS ONE!!) and PMDG offerings that are not sold in his store. .  

 

.

Well, I must admit I am a bit used to some of the problems. In another hobby we had one big store, several independend companies and a commercial magazine and while they tried to hide it they had all the same address. So I don't see such harm in them anymore since after some time users learn to use other forums.

 

It is normally a pretty good idea to use the forums and reviews of producers. Even if there is no direct interve3ntion the reviewers and members might hesitate to mention certain things, without any vicious intent  Shops and producers have to make a living, there is nothing evil in it.

 

I think we simply need the selection since there are in fact different interests. The store of X-Plane.org sometimes has the advantage that he carries many different products. So he shows a selection what might be available but I think people learn pretty fast that ther are other stores with different selections and possibilities. As X-Aviation with their normally high level products like SkyMAXX Pro, the Saab and so on, since a few days ago truscenery who decided to only sell directly their extremly good airports, simmarket for Airports like KDCA or Aerosoft who have their own airtports, (that are also carried by .org) the Carenado Planes or the Boeing 777 or the CRJ-200, or support products like NavData Pro or PFPX.

 

It is the diversity that X-Plane needs. I have to admit that I sometimes miss the situation that was available in FSX where many stores carried most available products, but since Boxes will probably vanish anyway and every shop takes a considerable amount of money I expect that many shops will start to specialice in their products.

It's been so sad to read this thread. I hope the X-Plane forum here at Avsim does not turn into a battlefield between commercial sites battling for attention and trying to bring down the competition by "bad-mouthing" them. Please act like professionals. Your products deserve that and so do your customers.

 

I can assure you our X-Plane forums will not ever suffer that problem. We have no reservation about banning or suspending any member here, no matter who they are. And I am confident that there are more than a couple of vendors out there that will attest to that statement.

It's been so sad to read this thread. I hope the X-Plane forum here at Avsim does not turn into a battlefield between commercial sites battling for attention and trying to bring down the competition by "bad-mouthing" them. Please act like professionals. Your products deserve that and so do your customers.

 

 

I agree and in some ways I feel bad that we have to have threads like this.  I don't own a webstore and I am not affiliated with X-aviation  or .org...   Just a customer who spends a lot of money on FS and I keep a eye out on whats going on and I have a opinion on it.  

 

What is sad is the biggest X-plane forum has just about no discussion about the SAAB  because members over there are afraid to talk for fear of banning. That is really really sad.