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tjrush

Confusion with FS GEnesis Terrain Mesh

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I went to the FS Genesis store looking for mesh primarily for the US but might also be interested in all of North America.  Their pricing has me totally befuddled. Would someone let me know if the underlying mesh in the following products is somehow different?

 

Canada 19m resolution - $30

All of North America 19m resolution - $25

World - 19m resolution - $20

 

It doesn't make sense to me that the larger the area you buy the less you pay.

 

 

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I think their labeling is messed up. The World package is really 76m even though the graphic says 19m (see http://www.fsgenesis.com/world-terrain-mesh-for-fsx), and then the description says the source data is actually 90m. So, it's interpolated to 76m? It's difficult to tell what you're actually getting.

 

I don't think a World 19m mesh product could be made today, source data at that resolution for the whole world doesn't exist AFAIK.

 

Somehow they made 19m mesh for Canada from 23m CDED source.  :blink:

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I'm in another boat.  It seems "Justin" is no longer part of the company. I take it FSGenesis has been bought.

 

Alas they seem to have "lost" my order history.  Good thing I ordered the actual North American disks when V1.2 came out

but all the other stuff like Asia, Australia, Pacific Islands, South America, etc which I did through download I will not have

access to.  :(

 

CK

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I have just used the website to reset my password and gain access to my account.

You then need to submit your previous order numbers to have them added to your account which I have just done.

Lets see how this pans out....

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I'm just glad that I received all that was then available from my now defunct "Galaxy Membership" in the form of discs, as that membership is gone forever...

 

I really cannot complain however, since I did receive far more value per dollar spent than I would have spent purchasing 'piece-meal'! :Applause:

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I had one of the memberships from before and wisely downloaded everything I could.  I cant make heads or tails of the new site, nothing makes sense.  My old account doesn't work, although I guess according to a previous comment I just need to contact them.  Even though the old site was pretty dated looking, it was at least easy to tell what everything was.  I think I'm going to just switch over to FSGlobal though, since I want to use FTX Vector and as far as I know, it doesn't work with FSGenesis.

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I believe that FSGenesis will work with vector. However, because Vector was a joint projects between PILOTS and ORBX that FSGlobal is optimized. the newest version of FSGlobal has been optimized for Vector and FTX. 

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I believe that FSGenesis will work with vector. However, because Vector was a joint projects between PILOTS and ORBX that FSGlobal is optimized. the newest version of FSGlobal has been optimized for Vector and FTX. 

 

I find that hard to believe with all the bugs reported.

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I cant make heads or tails of the new site, nothing makes sense.

At least Justin had the good sense to keep the FS9 and FSX products separated and alphabetized, and not all jumbled together in seeming random order...

 

I mean, one would expect Indiana to at least be on the same page as say, Illinois and Idaho, but...

 

...apparently that would make too much sense!  :LMAO:

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Well I received a reply to my support ticket at the new site.

I had sent them all of my order numbers and purchase dates.

They got back to me this morning and have added them to my new account there.

I have just been over and checked and everything is there in my download section.

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You could go onto the Pilot's site and read all about their explanation of Mesh...

 

A new compiler analyses the data and sets the maximal possible Fractional Bits (max. 7) in relation to optimalen Base level. This ensures, we ALWAYS work with the maximal vertical resolution. Then the data is put together from the various sources, modified for the Base Level and handed over as a 32bit-value to the Compiler of the SDK. The worst vertical resolution in this product is just 1/8m. Only three grid squares in the Himalayas needs 14 Bits fo altitude, thus reducing vertical resolution to 0.25m. Most parts of the world can be displayed using 7 Fractional, equal a vertical resolution of 1/2^7m = 7,8mm (!). There even are mountains of 6000m altitude, which can be displayed using 5 Fractional Bits (3cm vertical resolution) because of their very high Base Level (Tibetan Plateau). AA

 

Clear as day, I think not, what a load of old tosh!!

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This might make it a bit more clear (or not):

 

- We have 16 bits to play with, to represent a number range from -N.M to N.M, where N.M is elevation in meters

- The more bits we can use for M, the finer the resolution: 1/M

- As the total elevation above base gets bigger, we have to use more bits for N, so we have less bits to use for M (we only have 16 total).

 

For example, if we want to make mesh for Everest:

- The base altitude is 4200m

- The max altitude is 8848m

So we need enough bits to represent 8848 - 4200 = 4648m of elevation change, but since the numbers can be negative we need enough bits to represent 9296 different values (-4648 to 4648). To represent that many values we need 14 bits (with 13 bits we only get 8192 values, 14 bits gives us 16384, way more than we need but it's powers of 2 so that's as close as we can get).

 

That only leaves us with 2 bits to represent the fraction, which can represent 4 possible values, so M=4 and the resolution is 1/M = 1/4 = 0.25.

 

In areas where you have less elevation change, say only 200m, then you can represent that with just 9 bits (-200 to 200 is 400 values, and with 9 bits you get 512 values), so you have 7 bits left for the fraction M. 7 bits can represent 128 values, so you have 1/128 = .0078m = 7.8mm.

 

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc707102.aspx#UsingScaledElevationValues

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This might make it a bit more clear (or not):

 

- We have 16 bits to play with, to represent a number range from -N.M to N.M, where N.M is elevation in meters

- The more bits we can use for M, the finer the resolution: 1/M

- As the total elevation above base gets bigger, we have to use more bits for N, so we have less bits to use for M (we only have 16 total).

 

For example, if we want to make mesh for Everest:

- The base altitude is 4200m

- The max altitude is 8848m

So we need enough bits to represent 8848 - 4200 = 4648m of elevation change, but since the numbers can be negative we need enough bits to represent 9296 different values (-4648 to 4648). To represent that many values we need 14 bits (with 13 bits we only get 8192 values, 14 bits gives us 16384, way more than we need but it's powers of 2 so that's as close as we can get).

 

That only leaves us with 2 bits to represent the fraction, which can represent 4 possible values, so M=4 and the resolution is 1/M = 1/4 = 0.25.

 

In areas where you have less elevation change, say only 200m, then you can represent that with just 9 bits (-200 to 200 is 400 values, and with 9 bits you get 512 values), so you have 7 bits left for the fraction M. 7 bits can represent 128 values, so you have 1/128 = .0078m = 7.8mm.

 

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc707102.aspx#UsingScaledElevationValues

 

Clear as mud Barry :lol: 

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Clear as mud Barry

 

LOL, just remember that the deeper the pile of mud the lower the resolution.  :lol:

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I just went to their new site. The United States section includes the state of....Cuba. :blink:  Did I miss some big news? I guess I've got to get out more often.

 

Ted

Edited by Ted Striker

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That only leaves us with 2 bits to represent the fraction, which can represent 4 possible values, so M=4 and the resolution is 1/M = 1/4 = 0.25.

 

Brainiacs make my jaw wobble and my ears blush. Minutes later I get a case of explosive gas and remember my math classes required for my EE. I then remember why I got into business development and marketing. Thanks for the memories Barry. :ph34r:

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Brainiacs make my jaw wobble and my ears blush. Minutes later I get a case of explosive gas and remember my math classes required for my EE. I then remember why I got into business development and marketing. Thanks for the memories Barry. :ph34r:

And with no disrespect meant, you're the PERFECT customer for the drivel that's written above! See, if I hook up the hydrologator to the influx capacitor on the whizzbanger preprocessor it will make my mesh turn out better than anything ever seen!!! And for that the cost, today only, is ...

 

And since people know little about mesh, it sells well!

 

 

 

Ummm ya. So which is better, Pilots stuff or FSG?

It all comes out of the same source. I've been (<--- past tense) a customer of both and that's why I make my own. Any more, you're just as well to look for the free mesh that covers most all the world.

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remember my math classes required for my EE

 

Tom, I did those classes too. Lots of all-nighters. I'm happy to forget those days (and nights). LOL

 

 

 


So which is better, Pilots stuff or FSG?

 

I have a lot of Justin's mesh and it's great, but I'm finding the new FSG site confusing and opaque. If I was starting again today I'd go with Pilot's, at least they are trying to explain something about what source data they are using and something about how they process it.

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Clear as mud Barry :lol:

I had no problem following the explanation, but then I've been accused of being a bit of a 'nerd and therefore weird by default,' so maybe that's why...  :He He:

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And with no disrespect meant, you're the PERFECT customer for the drivel that's written above!

Whether you preface your response with "no disrespect meant" or not, implying that I am too stupid to understand anything more than "drivel" and make decisions based upon my assumed ignorance IS disrespectful. Do that again and you and I are going to have a very short private conversation.

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Meshman decided to quit AVSIM and remove his files from the library. And again called me stupid. We have done as he has requested.

  • Upvote 2

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Good Lord,  people are surely sensitive.  

 

It's a simulation,  for crying out loud,  and a pretty dang good one, IMHO.  But, it is not reality!  It's a toy, in the final analysis,  something to have fun with,  not something to get one's pantyhose in a knot over!

 

Jeez.

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I "was" an avid FSGenesis customer for many years with a Galaxy Membership as well. Given the decision  by their new owners to no longer honor this purchase plus their ever confusing website ( you never know what your buying) I no longer deal with them.

 

It's a shame given the excellent service we received before they became more interested in profit rather than quality products and customer loyalty. IMHO

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