If you read my posts, nowhere did I say they were horrible or useless junk as I think they are one of the better publishers of FSX add-on's out there. I quite like the 337 and I fly it, the C90, and the Mirage quite a bit. My issue has always been why make something with a G1000 or an FMS and not model that properly, especially after putting in the effort to make it look gorgeous. That is my only issue.

 

 I was not specifically implying you, it was a general comment based on many of the posts I have seen on here in the past.

Just remember, if Carenado decided to do system depth like A2A, Realair, PMDG...etc, the development time of their projects would take 2-4x as long depending on the aircraft's complexity.  Even the A2A 172 took a long time to develop.  

 

I don't know how many guys are on the Carenado team...maybe 2?  We do know another two man team who makes high quality addons, and we know how long it takes them to do that kind of work.  On top of that they have their day jobs, family lives...etc

 

So you can either get the Hawker 800, or wait until ESDG releases one of their fine projects coming down the line if you really want a systems deep bizjet.  Remember Bizjets rival modern airliners when it comes to system complexity.  Hats off to Ron and the ESDG team for taking on this field.

 

Cheers

TJ

I quite like the 337 and I fly it, the C90, and the Mirage quite a bit. My issue has always been why make something with a G1000 or an FMS and not model that properly, especially after putting in the effort to make it look gorgeous.

 

That pretty much sums up my feelings as well.  

 

One of the best things Carenado ever did for their "steam gauge" planes was to begin offering RXP integration.  Unfortunately, for many of us that set a pretty high bar for when they started to offer G1000 planes.  When a simpler plane with RXP integration such as, say, the Mirage, has more capabilities than a plane like the TBM, and users have to fudge things by adding something like the RXP 530 as a behind-the-scenes popup to better match capabilities, it rather loses the point of having a G1000 based plane.

 

I can fly an LPV approach in my 337, but not in a TBM or (based on track record) the upcoming Hawker?  Huh.

 

 

Scott

This plane looks awesome. 

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Carenado are what Carenado are. They've carved themselves a niche in the market and are one of the more successful and prolific developers of recent years. They must be doing something right otherwise they wouldn't continue to produce aircraft at such a prodigious rate and have spawned an offshoot developer in Alabeo.

 

The problem is I think some people seem to believe that every addon aircraft must be of PMDG or A2A quality to be of any value or merit. There are plenty of simmers out there who just want to jump in and fly a nice aeroplane without having to wade through page after page of checklists, flight preparation, get up to their necks in aircraft systems and have to nurse the engines lest they seize up or fail five minutes after taking off. That's where Carenado come in with their products. Even with the "lite" label given to them by so many, a lot of their aircraft - especially the ones where Bernt Stolle did the FDE - are very well made and well worth a place in anybody's virtual hangar.

 

Believe me guys, if everybody tried to be PMDG or A2A this hobby would wither very quickly.

 

 

The problem is I think some people seem to believe that every addon aircraft must be of PMDG or A2A quality to be of any value or merit.

 

That's an oversimplification of what some of us are saying - though I certainly agree that some of the blanket criticisms are extremely unwarranted.  See my previous comments, as I think Carenado have done some very fine and (often snobbishly) underated airplanes.  It's when they try to do glass and fall short of capabilities inherent in many of their "simpler" planes that I vote negatively with my $$.

 

Scott

Not sure this should have been moved. It's not asking for support...

I still think the sore spot is not how 'lite' the products are. They are in fact lite and that is no secret.  But if you are making 'lite' products, then charge lite prices.  At least that's how I feel.  I am not knocking them as developers, I even said that they had a great run there a while back with planes that fit their style and price points to match.  I am sure there are others that share my feelings there.

Not sure this should have been moved. It's not asking for support...

 

Milviz, by the way your King Air 350i looks BAD &@($*, it will replace both my King Airs from Carenado once it is released. One thing that has many people concerned is the frame rate impact from all the glass in the Rockwell Collins Proline-21 system, how are your testers reporting frame rates regarding this (if you can answer that of course)?

My frustrations with Carenado are selfish. I want to get my systems fix from corporate aircraft, not a 777 or NGX. But I get the comments from the 777 and NGX drivers who just want to occasionally hop in and fly an airplane, and why not let that airplane be a Hawker or Phenom right? I just want my Hawker and Phenom to have good systems and then I can just hop in and fly my Cessna 337 or Cessna 310 when I am time-limited. Just goes to show you the flight sim community is quite diverse in our desires. No one will argue that Carenado makes some of the best visual models out there, both inside and out.  Selfishly, I am sad that's where the fun ends. I can't help but stare at the Hawker, but then I get disappointed when I think about what will be. I don't fault Carenado, though. They obviously found a niche, and quite a large one at that, that are more than happy with their offerings and are willing to pay top dollar for it. So who can blame Carenado for charging what they charge? The market dictates that they are charging appropriately. And that, in turn, will drive prices higher for systems heavy aircraft. That, I think is a win for developers who invest a lot of time developing realistic systems.

 

So, while I won't buy the Phenom or the Hawker, there will be  a lot of people that do. I will, however, pay the premium that MilViz and ESDG will charge for their corporate aircraft.  If you really think about the time, effort, and money it takes, just to get the permission just to create a realistic Collins Proline avionics suite, not to mention the permission to create the external model, I think people will see $60-$80 for a good corporate aircraft is a bargain.

 

Todd

Our prices for addons are pretty cheap compared to the FPS gaming world. BF4 is upwards of 90 bucks for "premium" packages for example. If money is tight for you and yours, I understand... But as a computer based world simulation, it's darn good!

 

As far as frames go with the 350i. I'm sure they are trying to do their very best for fokes who are hardware challenged. However, we all should expect top of the line aircraft that maybe Microsoft didn't even think was possible when FSX was written, to be way ah head of computer hardware of the same age.

 

 

As the ad for the electric smart car point out so well... sometime you really do need a trail ready 4X4 to go off road.

I'm fine with the level of detail Carenado provides. If I want deeper systems or instrument simulation, there's A2A, Majestic Software, PMDG, RXP, etc.

 

I don't expect those kinds of sim add-ons from Carenado. I expect them to continue to play to their strengths, and will be happy to see the Phenom when it's ready.

 

For what they charge, their instrument simulations have come a long ways, too. Their G1000 is a $14.00 G1000. It's fine for what it is at that price.

 

Their frame rates are generally quite good, as well. They achieve balance. Their add-ons do not crash FSX. I don't see why people rage so bitterly here about all this.

 

It's like, my recent experience with my first pure Milviz product, the MV407. It's fine, but it will be my last, and leaves me far happier with my Nemeth Designs chopper fleet. ND, like Carenado, achieve balance.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

 

Their frame rates are generally quite good, as well. They achieve balance. Their add-ons do not crash FSX. I don't see why people rage so bitterly here about all this.

 

Bit of a strawman - many of us who are critical of their higher end planes don't "rage bitterly".  Certainly no rage or bitterness on my part, just a bit of disappointment and lack of interest in planes that SHOULD be more complex (because they are IRL) but are in some ways less capable than their simpler offerings.  If they work for you, great, but I struggle to see the point of planes like their TBM or a bizjet (unless of course they make this whole discussion moot by doing things they've not done up to now).

 

Perhaps part of the problem from my perspective is that I DO like many of Carenado's offerings (the Skymaster remains my most flown plane, though the RealAir B60 V2 is catching it by leaps and bounds), and I'd like to see them up their game on more complex planes.  The concept of balance that you mention is very much subjective, and is something I agree they've done a nice job with on simpler planes.  But as they've moved up the ladder, many of us see that balance being lost.

 

I don't like to get into the whole subjective and often judgmental "they charge too much" thing - a seller either offers enough value for what I'm paying or they don't.  In my case, even if planes like the TBM were cheaper I wouldn't buy them.  On the other hand, I WOULD pay more for something like a more complete 1000 package with update-able navdata.

 

Scott

If you all want Carenado to go back to making simpler GA types, you should show them with your wallet.  Don't buy the bizjets/glass from Carenado, instead buy the simple Cessna and vintage types from Alabeo.  Perhaps if they see the sales of the Alabeo GAs are much better than their Carenado corporate aircraft line, that might shift Carenado's focus back to the simpler aircraft.  However if they see the sales are roughly the same, they will probably continue this trend.  

 

Personally I agree with the sentiment here, I wish Carenado would go with the simpler GA types and Alabeo go for the exotic vintage stuff.  However I also think developers should push themselves and explore new things if they are passionate about it.  Before the A2A 172 project, I was quite happy with A2A's vintage warbird trend.  They could have continued with more warbirds, yet A2A took on new ground and we all benefit from it.  It is ultimately the decision of the Carenado/Alabeo staff to decide what they do.  I am not bothered either way.  If Carenado continue's their current trend, it won't ruin my hobby. There are plenty more interesting 'full package' airplanes coming from other devs that will keep my virtual hangar full and my wallet empty.  :lol:

 

Cheers

TJ