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Businessjets - are you interested?

Businessjets PMDG-Style  

356 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you interested in a Businessjet with PMDG Level systemsimulation and graphics?



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PMDG says there is no marked for Businessjets. Really? My opinion is that they are awsome!! :wub:

What do you think?

 

Paul Ziegler

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Not that they are boring. PMDG knows there's a limited market. In other words, Business jets are just not worth the development for the sales they may see.

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There are other developers working on business jets. Waiting for XLS+ .

 

PMDG has different product line, no space for that small and funny aircraft.

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I think the poll would make more sense without the extra descriptions. "No, they are boring" does not cover all the reasons why someone might vote no.  Best just to leave it at "No". You can put your detailed opinion in a post in the thread.

 

Same goes for "Yes, every kind of Business Jet". what if you don't like every kind of business jet but still think some are worthy of PMDG's attention?

 

So I cant vote, because the options are too specific.

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Yes, I'm interested in Bizzjets - but why should PMDG bother?   :P

 

(I'm not the market, just a tiny little part of it.)

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I think the poll would make more sense without the extra descriptions. "No, they are boring" does not cover all the reasons why someone might vote no.  Best just to leave it at "No". You can put your detailed opinion in a post in the thread.

 

Same goes for "Yes, every kind of Business Jet". what if you don't like every kind of business jet but still think some are worthy of PMDG's attention?

 

So I cant vote, because the options are too specific.

Thanks for replying. I changed the Options from "No-They are boring" to "No" and from "Yes-every kind of Businessjet" to "Yes". Everybody who already voted "Yes-every kind of Businessjet" should also fit to "Yes" and the same to the "No" Option. I hope nobody thinks his Vote gets manipulated with the little change.

 

Paul Ziegler

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Thanks for replying. I changed the Options from "No-They are boring" to "No" and from "Yes-every kind of Businessjet" to "Yes". Everybody who already voted "Yes-every kind of Businessjet" should also fit to "Yes" and the same to the "No" Option. I hope nobody thinks his Vote gets manipulated with the little change.

 

Paul Ziegler

Thanks Paul. It makes more sense. I can now vote No with a clear conscience as I don't find Biz Jets boring, far from it, but I don't think PMDG should make them.

 

I'd love to see a good classic Learjet or Falcon 20 in FSX. I'm not really interested in the latest ones. A Gulfstream would be very nice but IIRC they will not cooperate with hobby sim developers.

 

There are a few good biz jet sims out there, but they usually are the fastest or longest range versions (two Citation X sims for example) which misses out on some more interesting types. Flight 1 did an excellent Citation Mustang sim which I fly occasionally.

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To those wanting a Gulfstream sim: it's not going to happen. Gulfstream pretty literally stated they will sue the @££es of every add-on developer making a Gulfstream product. So that one is pretty much out of question.

 

Also, this poll won't be representative. There's no way the entire target market for PMDG is represented in sufficient numbers in this sub forum.

An example: a same kind of poll was started about an MD-11 renewal. Sure WE would like to see that, but the sales figures PMDG has, counter the appearance in that poll that the target audience is all for an MD-11 v2. Please keep this in mind: when the original MD-11 came out, it was a lot more common to see one at one's local airport than it is today. If anything, v1 would've sold better than v2 probably ever will.

The same story goes for business jets. WE might like 'em, but the forum users here are only a small part of the audience PMDG wants to address.

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I would love to see some old biz jets like a Falcon 10, Sabreliner, Lear 24...etc however I remember PMDG stating that the amount of work involved would require too much for a small niche market.  Besides there is every reason to have faith in ESDG to produce some fantastic biz jets.  I voted for the BBJ option.  The BBJ would be a nice offering from PMDG, and would require less R&D since they can simply adapt it from the current NGX.

 

Cheers

TJ

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To those wanting a Gulfstream sim: it's not going to happen. Gulfstream pretty literally stated they will sue the @££es of every add-on developer making a Gulfstream product. So that one is pretty much out of question.

 

yea. I've heard that too. Sucks. Real ######s. 

Wonder why. It's not like it hurts them if some simmers would like to play around with thier aircrafts. o.O

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Lionheart Creations is currently working on the steam gauged Learjet 24B. It is classic and it has nice panel and the most important to me is the easy performance. Business jet tends to give hardship to my setup. 

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Wonder why. It's not like it hurts them if some simmers would like to play around with thier aircrafts. o.O

 

My guess is that they want to protect the 'prestige" of the marque.  I don't see the point, but I also don't understand how people get all [irritated] when I take a picture of their biz jet (usually whining incessantly about the tail number being in the picture).

 

...apparently they missed the whole FAA requiring the tail number to be a certain size so as to be clearly visible, and the jet sitting in public space.

 

 

 

 

As far as the voting goes, i'd love a good biz jet, but I don't see it as a viable commercial option in the sim world.

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Yes please, a business jet for me.

 

And yes, PMDG have responded negatively to the idea.

 

Quite frankly, the notion that it wouldn't make sense commercially for PMDG to develop a business jet, isn't valid in my opinion.

 

Why... because it's PMDG!!! And we would all buy pretty much anything PMDG develop, because arguably they are one of the best developers around, and we know we will get a superb product.

 

In my opinion PMDG's negative stance on this is more to do with the difficulty of obtaining the necessary documentation and data, in order to simulate a business jet to the standards they ordinarily adhere to. It's predominantly Boeing that PMDG simulate due to the relationship PMDG have with Boeing.

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Quite frankly, the notion that it wouldn't make sense commercially for PMDG to develop a business jet, isn't valid in my opinion.

Why... because it's PMDG!!! And we would all buy pretty much anything PMDG develop, because arguably they are one of the best developers around, and we know we will get a superb product.

 

Well, unfortunately PMDG is a business and they have to devote efforts to items that will help them continue to exist as a business.

 

The MD-11 is an awesome aircraft.  I was really stoked they were making it, and bought it nearly immediately after it came out.  Despite the "because it's PMDG" notion, the aircraft did not sell well.  This idea that "any plane sold by PMDG is going to sell like hotcakes" notion that's thrown around here may be partially true, but it's not true enough to devote resources to any idea that crosses the forum.

 

Sure, PMDG might sell more copies of Business Jet A than Some Other Developer, but that doesn't mean it's a viable, profitable endeavor (or endeavour for you other proper sods...  :P )

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In my subjective, completely biased opinion....I think there might be a market for a PMDG business jet 'side project'.

 

Much like the Beech 1900 and DC6.....a business jet would be a niche aircraft which, if done with at least decent quality.... (Yes, I'm looking at you Carenado)... will sell. In my personal, biased opinion.....we wouldn't really need extreme systems depth if you pick the right aircraft. It wouldn't really need all the bells and whistles of the NGX and T7.....so why not pick an aircraft that doesn't have that many bells and whistles to begin with?

 

 

Hawker 800 / 800XP - Very popular business aircraft...... almost no glass. Simple systems, relatively simple FMC (Universal UNS-1B)

Learjet 35 - Still very popular around the world. Manufactured with no glass.....and you can retrofit whatever simple glass you want....Wx radar, UNS-1 FMC etc.

Challenger 601 - Quite a few still around. Very little glass...and what's there is very basic (Wx radar, UNS-1, EHSI, AI, VSI....comparatively simple to program)

 

 

And on the slightly more complex side of things:

 

Bombardier Global Express (Early build) - The avionics on these aircraft weren't nearly as complex as the ones being produced today....and TBH...it's one of the most beautiful aircraft in the sky (...behind every Gulfstream ever made and the Falcon 7X)....in my completely subjective, very biased opinion.

 

Dassault Falcon 2000 (Early Build) - Fairly simple glass as well.

 

 

None of these aircraft are fly-by-wire. In a lot of cases, the FMC and other glass displays are the plug-and-play type, installed over the original steam gauges. They've also all been around for more than 20 years (Falcon 2000 is the youngest...with a 1994 rollout), so there should be lots of info and knowledgeable people around.

 

I would LOVE to have a nicely done model of any of these, with at least a decent level of systems simulation that doesn't kill frames. I (personally) don't need to see hydraulic fluid-flow simulation...or working circuit breakers...or any crazy advanced failure simulation.

 

Also, to my knowledge there are currently no business aircraft available for FSX with Trans-Atlantic capability (except for the now-aged Feelthere Legacy 600...which can barely make a LTN-TEB run anyway).  With the exception of the upcoming Wilco Falcon 7X (which I have my doubts about), a Heavy Exec Jet from PMDG...or anyone... (even if it's lighter on systems) would be the only real entrant into that niche market.

 

We have lots of payware modern commercial airliners, payware historic airliners, GA piston and turboprops, payware helicopters...hell, we even have a decent Metroliner!.....but hardly any business jets? Come on.....

 

Cheers,

David Brown

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My guess is that they want to protect the 'prestige" of the marque.  I don't see the point, but I also don't understand how people get all [irritated] when I take a picture of their biz jet (usually whining incessantly about the tail number being in the picture).

 

You seen the (former) Gulfstream Girl profile on Facebook? Apparently they threatened to sue if she didn't change it to something that wasn't Glufstream... I suggested Bombardier Global Express Girl, but I think she found it too long. :)

crazy stuff.

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You seen the (former) Gulfstream Girl profile on Facebook? Apparently they threatened to sue if she didn't change it to something that wasn't Glufstream... I suggested Bombardier Global Express Girl, but I think she found it too long. :)

crazy stuff.

 

She was doing a far better job indirectly marketing Gulfstream on social media than Gulfstream ever has for themselves. Absolute shame though.

 

Perhaps they should be more concerned with Bombardier and Falcon selling more and more Heavy Jets rather than threatening to sue people who actually like their company.....

 

David B

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You seen the (former) Gulfstream Girl profile on Facebook? Apparently they threatened to sue if she didn't change it to something that wasn't Glufstream... I suggested Bombardier Global Express Girl, but I think she found it too long. :)

 

Yeah, she'd pop up every once in a while because my friends would like her posts.  I did notice the name change, though.

 

 

 


She was doing a far better job indirectly marketing Gulfstream on social media than Gulfstream ever has for themselves. Absolute shame though.
 
Perhaps they should be more concerned with Bombardier and Falcon selling more and more Heavy Jets rather than threatening to sue people who actually like their company.....

 

Agreed.  I really don't understand their angle.  Moreover, I don't understand how they think that their angle and generally combative stance is going to help them in any realm.

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In my subjective, completely biased opinion....I think there might be a market for a PMDG business jet 'side project'.

 

Much like the Beech 1900 and DC6.....a business jet would be a niche aircraft which, if done with at least decent quality.... (Yes, I'm looking at you Carenado)... will sell. In my personal, biased opinion.....we wouldn't really need extreme systems depth if you pick the right aircraft. It wouldn't really need all the bells and whistles of the NGX and T7.....so why not pick an aircraft that doesn't have that many bells and whistles to begin with?

 

 

Hawker 800 / 800XP - Very popular business aircraft...... almost no glass. Simple systems, relatively simple FMC (Universal UNS-1B)

Learjet 35 - Still very popular around the world. Manufactured with no glass.....and you can retrofit whatever simple glass you want....Wx radar, UNS-1 FMC etc.

Challenger 601 - Quite a few still around. Very little glass...and what's there is very basic (Wx radar, UNS-1, EHSI, AI, VSI....comparatively simple to program)

 

 

And on the slightly more complex side of things:

 

Bombardier Global Express (Early build) - The avionics on these aircraft weren't nearly as complex as the ones being produced today....and TBH...it's one of the most beautiful aircraft in the sky (...behind every Gulfstream ever made and the Falcon 7X)....in my completely subjective, very biased opinion.

 

Dassault Falcon 2000 (Early Build) - Fairly simple glass as well.

 

 

None of these aircraft are fly-by-wire. In a lot of cases, the FMC and other glass displays are the plug-and-play type, installed over the original steam gauges. They've also all been around for more than 20 years (Falcon 2000 is the youngest...with a 1994 rollout), so there should be lots of info and knowledgeable people around.

 

I would LOVE to have a nicely done model of any of these, with at least a decent level of systems simulation that doesn't kill frames. I (personally) don't need to see hydraulic fluid-flow simulation...or working circuit breakers...or any crazy advanced failure simulation.

 

Also, to my knowledge there are currently no business aircraft available for FSX with Trans-Atlantic capability (except for the now-aged Feelthere Legacy 600...which can barely make a LTN-TEB run anyway).  With the exception of the upcoming Wilco Falcon 7X (which I have my doubts about), a Heavy Exec Jet from PMDG...or anyone... (even if it's lighter on systems) would be the only real entrant into that niche market.

 

We have lots of payware modern commercial airliners, payware historic airliners, GA piston and turboprops, payware helicopters...hell, we even have a decent Metroliner!.....but hardly any business jets? Come on.....

 

Cheers,

David Brown

 

I agree with you, i think there is a market for busniessjets, especially when they are well done :wink:. The survey i started with this shows the same: It's just one day and only 124 voters until now, but the big numbers aren't changeing. The market is smaller than the market of an airliner like the 737, that's true but more than 60% are interested in a bizjet. Furthermore I think the majorety of the voters are PMDG-Users. There may be more Useres who would buy such a bizjet, not having a look at the PMDG Forum frequently.

I don't need one of these Garmin1000  Cockpits too (they are very FPS-Unfriendly!). But the Cockpit of a Cessna Citation XLS+ for example looks cool and it's a nice aircraft at all. Maybe  there will be such a nice Bizjet in the future, looking forward!

(I hope Wilco will manage there Falcon7X Version and it will be a bugless, flyable, nice aircraft, let's hope, we will see.)

 

Paul Ziegler

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Well if the XLS is what you want Eaglesoft is working on one

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But the Cockpit of a Cessna Citation XLS+ for example looks cool and it's a nice aircraft at all.

 

Eaglesoft is working on an XLS....which I'm pretty excited for.

 

They are the only developer who really put any effort into bizjets... though it's been quite some time since their last release. 

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You seen the (former) Gulfstream Girl profile on Facebook? Apparently they threatened to sue if she didn't change it to something that wasn't Glufstream... I suggested Bombardier Global Express Girl, but I think she found it too long. :)

crazy stuff.

 

Did she finally go to jail?

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