I wasn't aware of that. Seeing the fear of some in here that the Steam version of FSX won't allow add-ons, I thought that Train Simulator 2014 had a file structure to allow only official add-ons.

Nope. The executable located the steam folder and loaded right in.

I've been lurking in this thread from the beginning, wondering where it would take me, and I've made some observations. I was a real-world pilot before Sublogic and then MS introduced Flight Sim to the public. Form the get-go, I never bought and installed it to attack tanks or fly it into the ground. I wanted to fly at home and hone my skills mostly at IFR flying and multi-engine modes.  I never considered Flight Sim a game but a simulation, and I loved it as MS continued to create a newer and more refined sim.

 

And now, as I think that FSX might be gone, I hate the thought because I still fly the plane I soloed in (a PA-38 Tomahawk), and the A2A C-172, another of my favorite "real" aircraft. But I also fly the A2A P-51, and both the 737NGX and 777 from PMDG. And it is the realism I want. I am an old pilot who doesn't fly the real stuff anymore, but I don't want some "toy" planes with dumbed-down features.

 

I don't understand the Steam concept, really. It seems to me like an on-line gamer community, and most of the stuff up there is more fantasy and role-playing than anything else. I don't know how these guys can make FSX fit into that genre, and so I hope they just leave it alone. I guess I can switch over to P3D if FSX goes the way of the do-do, but I like what I have right now, and it all works. Part of the fun has been the completeness of this hobby - some of you moan about the tweaks and fixes, but to me they are a part of the sim.  It's a hobby, and any hobby worthwhile takes a little work to keep going. If I didn't have anything to do but fly, it would get boring quick. But there's always a new weather engine, or new ATC, or GSX or photo-realistic scenery (I live in PA, and part of my fun is flying the Cessna or the P-51 around the area with the MegaScenery PA files - I over-fly my house almost every time I fly out of the Slatington airport).

 

All of you guys have great points, but for me I'd just like to keep the status quo.  If I have to switch to P3D, I'll do it. But I'd rather not. Fair enough?

I meant wrong in sense  that 3PD are responsible for the visual quality of their  own products, which obviously in the case of Pietermaritzburg - Ladysmith, there is obviously room for improvement.

 

 

"Rubbish" is a typical Brit term in the context you have used it. You are not from Missoula, Montana sir. You are from the UK. But, let's not quibble about that untruth (for the moment). Let's ask about your credentials to question the information "spouted" on this forum. Please state your credentials, affiliation, whatever, that give you the insight, intel, whatever, to judge so harshly... You don't have a long time to answer this, by the way.

 

ScreenHunter_07 Jul. 12 18.02.jpg

 

"Rubbish" is a typical Brit term in the context you have used it. You are not from Missoula, Montana sir. You are from the UK. But, let's not quibble about that untruth (for the moment). Let's ask about your credentials to question the information "spouted" on this forum. Please state your credentials, affiliation, whatever, that give you the insight, intel, whatever, to judge so harshly... You don't have a long time to answer this, by the way.

 

 

So glad you did this.. My Spidey Senses were going off from the moment of his first post and his continued posts.. I kept my mouth shut though..

...

I don't understand the Steam concept, really. It seems to me like an on-line gamer community, and most of the stuff up there is more fantasy and role-playing than anything else. I don't know how these guys can make FSX fit into that genre, and so I hope they just leave it alone.

...

Steam is a content distribution platform. It provides a central location where people can buy their software, and it also provides functionality for automatic distribution of software updates. Steam is nothing to be afraid of, it's the modern way to buy software. Nobody buys software from actual brick-and-mortar stores any longer

So glad you did this.. My Spidey Senses were going off from the moment of his first post and his continued posts.. I kept my mouth shut though..

Tom's BS detector runs 24/7

 

 

Nobody buys software from actual brick-and-mortar stores any longer

Only scrubs who don't know manure from clay

When all the dust has settled it will be "business as usual" for all 3rd party devs.

 

Mickey D

 

Team SDB

Steam is a content distribution platform. It provides a central location where people can buy their software, and it also provides functionality for automatic distribution of software updates. Steam is nothing to be afraid of, it's the modern way to buy software. Nobody buys software from actual brick-and-mortar stores any longer

Well, then, they aren't a front-end developer? They just sell what others produce? So they bought FSX just so they could sell it from the Steam store? Can you also explain the Steam app that they want you to download?  I've bought software from Flight-1 and other sim sites that didn't require you to download anything.

 

Excuse me for sounding dumb, but until this stuff came up, I had no idea what Steam was, with the exception of Steam gauges on some of the FSX aircraft. Maybe you could enlighten me further. :blink:

I would be more enthusiastic about this news, if I weren't already one of their Train Simulator customers. Others have mentioned why that may not be a good thing and for a good variety of reasons.

 

My other main concern here is that their business model for TS seems to be mainly based on their own original dlc content. That's a model closer to Flight than FSX, and probably tells us a lot about the direction this is likely to go.

 

Excuse me for sounding dumb, but until this stuff came up, I had no idea what Steam was, with the exception of Steam gauges on some of the FSX aircraft. Maybe you could enlighten me further. :blink:

 

To save you from Googl'ing the Wiki on this: "Steam is an internet-based digital distribution, digital rights management, multiplayer, and social networking platform developed by Valve Corporation. Steam provides the user with installation and automatic updating of games on multiple computers, and community features such as friends lists and groups, cloud saving, and in-game voice and chat functionality. The software provides a freely available application programming interface (API) called Steamworks, which developers can use to integrate many of Steam's functions, including networking and matchmaking, in-game achievements, micro-transactions, and support for user-created content through Steam Workshop, into their products."

 

To that I would add that Steam has proven to be a slick, fast and reliable way of keeping one's PC titles up to date and permanently stored in the cloud. It is now the de facto PC games delivery platform, with imitators such as EA's Origin.

 

It's definitely a good move.

Can you also explain the Steam app that they want you to download?  I've bought software from Flight-1 and other sim sites that didn't require you to download anything.

 

In addition to PC's post, another nice thing about Steam is that it has a good way of handling developers who want to allow access to Beta test versions, as well as the current official version. You just go to the Properties tab and select the Beta, and it's easy to revert back to the official version if the Beta is too unstable. That's a nice feature for software that's still under constant improvement, and it might be one reason X-Plane is getting on Steam. Their current method of distributing Beta versions is a bit clumsy.

 

Steam is also the way many developers handle multiplayer support, since the servers are huge and fairly reliable.

 

 

Tom's BS detector runs 24/7

 

Only when my eyes are open. Turns out our friend immediately requested we close his account, rather than answer the challenge. One fraud down; how many more will pop up? Don't answer that, it was a rhetorical question. I know all too well the answer.

 

 

it seems you simply dislike either what I'm saying or the way I'm saying it and wish to express you opinion on that while simultaneously explaining why I should not express mine.......



Unless Tom or a mod objects, I feel as free to express my opinion as anyone.

 

Oh good grief, Devon.  Where did I suggest you had no right to express your views?  I criticized your approach and disagree with some of what you're saying, but not your right to have and express your views.  I enjoy your postings as they're typically thoughtful and well-reasoned even if I don't always agree with them.  That's the only reason I reacted to your categorizing hard core simmers as elitist.

 

I do consider myself pretty hard core.  I'm a pilot and enjoy flight "in the system" conducted in real world fashion.  That's why I also tried to take the time to explain why there's concern on the part of simmers like myself relative to the company in question, and to do so in a non-confrontational way.  WE (enthusiasts) are not the enemy, but most of us recognize that we're on the margins, and are at risk of getting cut out, so we sometimes get a bit reactionary.  This is the part I don't think you appreciate when you take us to task for our elitist ways.

 

I'm happy to carry on the discussion, but let's both keep it above the line, yes?

 

Scott

Well, I am going to standby my opinion because I own a company and there is no dirty crap that the vast majority of my competitors won't pull to get the competitive edge. Me? I am all about business ethics and deals where all of the parties are winners. However based on my experience that kind of philosophy in business is the exception rather than the rule and frankly, I would do a lot better if I adopted the same strategies as my competition but I am not Prepar3D to sell my soul for double of tripple of even quadruple the bucks. And as far as making money is concerned providing value for money products and excellent customer service is not the way to go. In business, it is well established that covertly doing everything in you power to destroy your competitors and as far as your customers are concerned; over promise and under deliver, take the money and run is the creed of modern business methodology. Ask an MBA if what I am saying is true and they will lie throw their teeth and tell you; 'not at all, successful companies strive for greater efficiency to deliver the best product at the best possible price for their customers'. And the is B.S.!

 

Anyone who knows anything about PC gaming and gamers and FSX knows that on the surface releasing a virtually unaltered FSX on Steam before the end of this years is a completely insane move when they could with a great deal more ease just re-launch flight virtually as it is. Especially since Flight will work and is much more in keeping with the expectations of the average Steam user and flying fair already available on Steam.

 

Why start with FSX? There has to be some other motive! My guess is to pick an argument with the way that LM are selling P3D. The Folks at Flight1 warned FSX user that this would transpire and I am afraid that this might be the beginning of what they predicted.

 

This is the way I see it playing out. FSX Steam launches. DT complains to MS that LM are selling P3D in a manner that exceeds their license and infringes on the DT license. (As instructed to do so by MS behind closed doors). MS approached LM and says, 'Look chaps the vender with the license to sell FSX is complaining that they are losing sales because a large proportion of end users are buying P3D for entertainment and DT expected to have exclusive rights to sell for entertainment purposes. You guys need to tighten up so only professional users can purchase P3D otherwise we might have a law suite on our hands and nobody wants that.

 

Then it comes down to whether of not LM are willing to fight for us. Me thinks not for 2 reasons. 1. From a business point of view we are utterly insignificant. 2. We are a bunch of childish morons. Before anyone takes offence I put myself at the top of the childish moron list and frankly when it comes too what we man do in our basements in our leisure time we work or worked hard and have every right to regress to our boyhood and dream about flying and going into space etc. Women spend at least as much time on getting their hair and nails done and trying to look like Barbie.

 

Look FS is not my job. I am lucky enough to do it for fun as well as fly for real. But to my business noise this stinks of a strategy to coral LM and Prepar3d prior to the re-release of Flight. Despite the; MS, LM are multi-billion dollar industries bla bla bla and don't care crap, the fact of the matter is that these companies hire $250,000 a year execs and there job is to generate over $250,000 plus costs to justify that salary. Nobody cares how they do it so long as it is legal. In fact corporations don't care if its illegal so long as they can blame the exec and suffer no consequences themselves if the exec gets caught. ( The Eleventh Commandment: Thou shalt not get caught) I constantly tell my employess: I like you but you are an asset or a liability. Its not that black and white but they know what I mean and respect me for my transparency.

 

This is pure speculation on my part but I believe that re-launching FSX on Steam is all about forcing LM to tighten up on who can buy Prepar3D.

Even if there is only a couple of million Dollars at stack it worth the effort of a couple of execs to justify their existence  The wealthy are wealthy for now other reason than that they are cheap in every sense of the word!

Only when my eyes are open. Turns out our friend immediately requested we close his account, rather than answer the challenge. One fraud down; how many more will pop up? Don't answer that, it was a rhetorical question. I know all too well the answer.

 

Hence why I went full disclosure about my history with DTG and my past association with them. Takes the mystery out of why I'm not exactly the biggest fan of theirs.

I think it is almost guaranteed that they will do the absolute minimum to get FSX working on Steam (I doubt they will even fix bugs, other than ones that make it not work on modern OSes and Steam), and then just make money off it.  In the mean time they will be updating Flight, probably mostly getting the tools ready for 3rd parties to make content (won't take long), and then make money off all that DLC.  I think the main change they should make to the engine prior to release, if  anything, would be to update to D3D11, and replace the terrain engine with something that is more scaleable on modern hardware and easier to author content for, but I am guessing they won't bother.  All other features can be easily added on later.

 

The recipe for success with the Flight engine is the ability to make quick, cheap, but high quality DLC.  The other problem they will run into is licensing aircraft... a quarter million per plane per year will kill things quickly.  Maybe they work around it with 3rd parties, or just take the risk.

 

Steve,

 

does DTG get your updated tool set for Flight?

 

having that as part of the "head start" might make a difference.

 

and if they open Flight to 3DPs, it might be interesting depending.

 

obviously the jury is still out, but having someone make a try is at least movement over no one making a try.

 

Phil