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JaneRachel

777-300 expansion first impressions

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Guys,

 

I quickly wanted to mention something as I have seen a lot of comments in various places with regard to the 300. Those comments allude to this being the 200LR with a stretched fuselage. As such some people are talking about passing on the expansion.

 

This could not be further from the truth, unlike some other sim developers, this is not just a change in external model. The 300 when you fly her (and I have been for a while now) flies like a COMPLETELY different bird to the LR. That stretched fuselage and more importantly, different powerplant makes a huge difference. You will notice that immediately on the first flight. The guys at PMDG have spent a long long time getting the 300 just right, to an incredible level of perfection and it has a completely different flight model. The cockpit may look pretty much the same, but under the hood this is not the same aircraft and it shows! There has been a huge amount of time spent on flight dynamics and aircraft power, etc etc. I am sure some of the other beta testers can chime in and confirm with me that in many ways, this feels like a whole new aircraft, which in fact it pretty much is!

 

I just wanted to chime in as comments about this being same plane, different external model are a long way from reality. She is a whole load of fun to fly and you will be managing the power much differently to the LR.

 

all the best

 

Jane Whittaker

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Good morning Jane, 

 

Thank you for the note! Very much looking forward to the product. 

 

Cheers. 

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Excellent! Its one thing to hear it in a .pdf but its another to hear it from a beta tester. Looking forward to sharing your experience.

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PMDG at it's best :) 

I will definitely be buying 300ER. Not only because it is yet another great airplane but also because I want to support a developer who is keeping this hobby alive and has put so much time and effort in this for us simmers :)

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I guess that, to some of our members, there is an urge to just own a hanger of many aircraft and not be the master of any :rolleyes:

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I disagree. It maybe is a different flight model, and feels different, but I think you exaggerate the difference. All 777 share the same type rating, all you have to do is short difference training which would not be possible with the difference you emphasis. 

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I disagree. It maybe is a different flight model, and feels different, but I think you exaggerate the difference. All 777 share the same type rating, all you have to do is short difference training which would not be possible with the difference you emphasis. 

 

 

Not so sure about the sim, won't be another 3 months before I can try out the 300ER.  I can speak for the real thing, my old man operates all the Qatar variants. He commented that the 300ER is like a cruise ship.  He likes to bid on freighter trips, he seems to prefer to  -200LR and Freighter variants. Much better performance. 

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I'm with Jane.

 

I know some of my posts have alluded to it being just a stretch of the 200LR without too much difference between the two, but that's from a visual and systems perspective.  I was saying that because people were asking for videos.  Visually, there isn't too much I can show.

 

Jane's definitely right about the feel.  It does feel like a completely different aircraft in that it feels more mature.  It's an aircraft that fits the engines nicely (or the engines fit it nicely).  It's not brash and sporty like the 200LR/F.  It's mature and well-rounded.  There's a certain docile feel to it.  I'd liken it to a Maserati.  You know the power is there, but it's refined and mature power.  It isn't like some of the all out race machines with no performance refinements and sound dampening.

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So you'll reinburse me will you Kyle, if I decide it's pretty much the same?

 

Just thought I'd warn you that I will come to you for the dosh if you lie. :)

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Guys,

Jane Wittaker is not just another beta tester. She flew 747-400 for Virgin Atlantic so I think she's pretty qualified to give an opinion on flight dynamics.

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So you'll reinburse me will you Kyle, if I decide it's pretty much the same?

 

Just thought I'd warn you that I will come to you for the dosh if you lie. :)

 

No reimbursements.  I'd just blame the "lie" on issues of multiple unchecked code modifications  :P

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I disagree. It maybe is a different flight model, and feels different, but I think you exaggerate the difference. All 777 share the same type rating, all you have to do is short difference training which would not be possible with the difference you emphasis. 

The 737-600 and 737-900 are the same type rating but have different flight characteristics, mostly related to the power to weight ratio but also fuselage length, just like the 777-200 and -300.

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The 757 and 767 share the same type rating, the MD-10 and MD-11 share the same type rating. That does not mean they handle the same! As Flex said, the shorter variant is more powerful while the -300ER is like a big boat. Less climb power and much heavier. That is why I wont buy the ER as long as I can enjoy the service pack on the freighter.

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No reimbursements.  I'd just blame the "lie" on issues of multiple unchecked code modifications  :P

Haha good point.

Guys,

Jane Wittaker is not just another beta tester. She flew 747-400 for Virgin Atlantic so I think she's pretty qualified to give an opinion on flight dynamics.

 

But she didn't fly the 777, so therefore not as qualified as you imply. 747's don't fly like 777's. However... I thank her for her comments.

 

We do have a 777 ER pilot on the forum though, so I'm sure he will give us his impressions.

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More of a cash flow thing for me versus desire.

 

As well, if I want to see the weather radar etc I will need to consider that cash spoken for with ASE>ASN upgrade fee.

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hey guys what is the download size of the 77W?

just over 100MB

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hey guys what is the download size of the 77W?

 

113MB.

 

SP1 is 109MB

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Haha good point.

 

 

But she didn't fly the 777, so therefore not as qualified as you imply. 747's don't fly like 777's. However... I thank her for her comments.

 

We do have a 777 ER pilot on the forum though, so I'm sure he will give us his impressions.

Sorry for the double post.

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Haha good point.

 

 

But she didn't fly the 777, so therefore not as qualified as you imply. 747's don't fly like 777's. However... I thank her for her comments.

 

We do have a 777 ER pilot on the forum though, so I'm sure he will give us his impressions.

Martin,

I don't know if she's 777 qualified or not. She's still more qualified than the 99.9% of the desktop pilots who try to speak with authority on the subject. I'm sure Captain Randazzo picked her for the beta team for more reasons than just her good looks.

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In my first flight, which was at MTOW, I definitely noticed differences between the -200LR and -300ER.  It took more power to break away for taxiing.  V2 was 183, which is 15-20 knots higher than any -200LR V2 I've used.  It took more effort on my part to get the nose down at  acceleration height and get my speed up, probably because I was used to the quick acceleration of the -200LR.  The clean speed was around 265 and it climbed at 1200fpm to the initial FL280.

 

When I landed 15 hours later, I actually found it easier to land than the -200LR.  Maybe it was beginner's luck.  And I haven't tried the -200LR with SP1 yet, so some of the difference might be attributable to the changes to the FBW model.

 

The new datalink feature is really cool.  I didn't get descent winds on my first attempt (INVALID FORECAST UPLINK) because I missed a step in ASN.  But, after a quick reread of that section of the 777 Intro doc, I performed the missing step and all was well.  There were no CBs enroute, so I didn't get to see the integrated WX radar in action.  For datalink functions, I don't know if there's a list floating around of which airlines use it for flight plans and/or winds.  In the JustPlanes videos for Air Canada's 777's, they entered the flight plans by hand (and I don't recall how they entered the winds).

 

Overall, for me, adding the -300ER is a much bigger change than adding the 737-6/700 was for the NGX.  I think it was a bargain at $29.99.

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Martin,

I don't know if she's 777 qualified or not. She's still more qualified than the 99.9% of the desktop pilots who try to speak with authority on the subject. I'm sure Captain Randazzo picked her for the beta team for more reasons than just her good looks.

 

I didn't say she wasn't more quailed than the majority of us amateurs who have never flown an airliner... Clearly someone who has flown an airliner is more knowledgeable than someone who hasn't.

 

You said... "She flew 747-400 for Virgin Atlantic so I think she's pretty qualified to give an opinion on flight dynamics."

 

General flight dynamics yes... but  we are talking about the "specific" flight dynamics of a "specific" aircraft. Flying a 747, doesn't tell you anything about how a 777 flies. That's just common sense. The flight dynamics of different aircraft vary, sometimes wildly.

 

For example... prior to SP1 there were many real world airline pilots on the forum that felt the PMDG 777 was realistic... until myself and others queried the flight dynamics. Rob confirmed that the flight dynamics were way off.

 

As I said, Rob on the forum is a 777 pilot. Thus has first hand experience of "exactly" how the 777 behaves. If Jane has never flown the real 777 she won't. AS evidenced by the fact that Jane and the rest of the beta testers didn't spot that the flight dynamics in terms of trim were completely wrong prior to SP1.

 

It's also worth pointing out that in her piece, at no time did she claim to be experienced in terms of real 777 flight dynamics. Her only point was that the 300 simulation flies differently to the 200.

 

 

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Martin,

            I don't disagree at all. I don't know if Jane has any hands on 777 experience or even simulator time on the 777. Which Rob is the 777 pilot? I own the 777-200 but I don't fly it a lot because I just don't have the time to do the long hauls that the airplane was intended for, therefore I don't follow the forums as closely for this aircraft as I do for some others.

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Martin,

            I don't disagree at all. I don't know if Jane has any hands on 777 experience or even simulator time on the 777. Which Rob is the 777 pilot? I own the 777-200 but I don't fly it a lot because I just don't have the time to do the long hauls that the airplane was intended for, therefore I don't follow the forums as closely for this aircraft as I do for some others.

 

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/446943-handling-dynamics-with-redesigned-fbw-sytems/page-2#entry3037507

 

777simmer

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