Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
baldk9

PC-12 Problems

Recommended Posts

Just took my first test flight and found that in comparsion to the previous PC-12 by Flight1, there really is no comaparison. given this is not the NG version it is well done, maybe the best flight modelling I have bought from Carenado. The one problem I have witnessed so far is I am losing the top Garmin 530 (i think). It starts up fine in pre-flight but shortly after it just goes dark. It may take a few more hours to detect any more problems, and I look forward to any other contributors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me know what you think of the autopilot / altitude pre-selector (KAS297C)..

 

Does not operate the way I would expect..  :( 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the glaring errors that I caught after just 20 min in the a/c.

 

1) Top GPS doesn't work at all for me..... Lights On/Off doesnt matter.. But the pop-up does work..... This needs to be addressed very quicly as this aircraft is not flyable like this.

 

2) Bert - You are right.... I dont understand the AP Alt selector. When you click ALT it zero's out the preset? Is that right? And you cant really enable it until the AP master is on.. Weird system and I  do not know if its correct.

 

3) The Cockpit Flood lights switch controls the rear cabin Flood Lights. So when the panel flood lights are on the rear cabin flood lights are on too. There is a separate Cabin Flood Light switch that should control the rear flood lights but that of course does nothing...

 

4) I took a short hop flight. On final, full flap, rate of decent -400 to -500 and the attitude of the aircraft was extremely nose down... I dont know if I was doing anything wrong but  it seems excessive to me...

 

Right off the bat these items need to be addressed just to make this bird flyable to me...

 

Other then these so far - This may be the best yet for Carenado - Although I have not checked the flight envelope yet - I should not talk too soon....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the glaring errors that I caught after just 20 min in the a/c.

 

1) Top GPS doesn't work at all for me..... Lights On/Off doesnt matter.. But the pop-up does work..... This needs to be addressed very quicly as this aircraft is not flyable like this.

 

2) Bert - You are right.... I dont understand the AP Alt selector. When you click ALT it zero's out the preset? Is that right? And you cant really enable it until the AP master is on.. Weird system and I  do not know if its correct.

 

3) The Cockpit Flood lights switch controls the rear cabin Flood Lights. So when the panel flood lights are on the rear cabin flood lights are on too. There is a separate Cabin Flood Light switch that should control the rear flood lights but that of course does nothing...

 

4) I took a short hop flight. On final, full flap, rate of decent -400 to -500 and the attitude of the aircraft was extremely nose down... I dont know if I was doing anything wrong but  it seems excessive to me...

 

Right off the bat these items need to be addressed just to make this bird flyable to me...

 

Other then these so far - This may be the best yet for Carenado - Although I have not checked the flight envelope yet - I should not talk too soon....

 

Granted, I don't have the aircraft yet (holding off for reviews like these), I do have some stick time on the real aircraft but work with it and fly on it routinely. 

 

Regarding #2, that certainly doesn't sound right at all.  I should be able to use the KAS297C, preselect an altitude, dial in a VS, and hand fly following the flight directors for a VS and altitude capture.  I also should still have normal alerter tones for approaching or deviating the selected altitude regardless of AP.

 

#3, what you described is correct. 

 

#4, what is "extremely" nose down?  Depending on flaps/weight, nose down is common in the plane, but not sure I'd call it "extremely."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding the A/P:  On the Flight1 version, you dial in the preferred VS and altitude targets, then hit the "arm" and "eng" buttons on the left of the AP display--when the A/P master is already engaged.  It will then fly the VS to the selected ALT and within a few hundred feet, the A/P panel's "ALT" indicator will light.

 

Nose down:  The Flight1 PC-12 will nose down with most flaps, also with a warning to not engage flap 40 unless you are on final and stable, as it will severely slow the aircraft and you can stall easily.

 

Oddly enough--the Flight1 version "1.0" of the PC-12 had panel GPS unit problems and had the same cabin light issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2) Bert - You are right.... I dont understand the AP Alt selector. When you click ALT it zero's out the preset? Is that right? And you cant really enable it until the AP master is on.. Weird system and I  do not know if its correct.

 

This is default FSX autopilot behaviour.    You can get around this by setting the Flight Director prior to AP engagement.    In other words, if you set the FD on, then set NAV or HDG, and ALT, and then preset your ALT, when you engage AP, it will keep the preset alt that you set.

 

If you don't use FD and just turn on AP with NAV/HDG and ALT, it will reset the preset alt.

 

= Default FSX autopilot logic. :(

 

Regarding the A/P:  On the Flight1 version, you dial in the preferred VS and altitude targets, then hit the "arm" and "eng" buttons on the left of the AP display--when the A/P master is already engaged.  It will then fly the VS to the selected ALT and within a few hundred feet, the A/P panel's "ALT" indicator will light.

 

that is true - but the Flight1 PC-12 used a custom autopilot code for the ALT selection and arming (to make it model it the real unit).  Carenado always use 100% default FSX AP coding.

 

 

4) I took a short hop flight. On final, full flap, rate of decent -400 to -500 and the attitude of the aircraft was extremely nose down... I dont know if I was doing anything wrong but  it seems excessive to me...

 

What was your speed?    PC-12 is a very slow lander (for it's weight).  At most weights, you won't be far over 73kts for touchdown.   If you're over 90, you'll certainly have the strong nose down attitude.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the glaring errors that I caught after just 20 min in the a/c.

 

1) Top GPS doesn't work at all for me..... Lights On/Off doesnt matter.. But the pop-up does work..... This needs to be addressed very quicly as this aircraft is not flyable like this.

 

2) Bert - You are right.... I dont understand the AP Alt selector. When you click ALT it zero's out the preset? Is that right? And you cant really enable it until the AP master is on.. Weird system and I  do not know if its correct.

 

3) The Cockpit Flood lights switch controls the rear cabin Flood Lights. So when the panel flood lights are on the rear cabin flood lights are on too. There is a separate Cabin Flood Light switch that should control the rear flood lights but that of course does nothing...

 

4) I took a short hop flight. On final, full flap, rate of decent -400 to -500 and the attitude of the aircraft was extremely nose down... I dont know if I was doing anything wrong but  it seems excessive to me...

 

Right off the bat these items need to be addressed just to make this bird flyable to me...

 

Other then these so far - This may be the best yet for Carenado - Although I have not checked the flight envelope yet - I should not talk too soon....

 

 

1: Not seeing this issue, I'm running it in P3D V2.3

2: Yeah, it does seem a bit weird but it seems to work OK with FD and/or AP on.

3: Noticed this, but doesn't really affect the use of the plane, so no big deal to me.

4: The nose-down attitude seems to be inherent to this type. And as mentioned before, the faster you approach, the worse it is. You can happily ram it down at 100kts, flight idle and 15-20 degrees nose-down :P.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am holding off until I see them addressing bugs instead of moving on to a new project. The Seneca doesn't display the propeller animations in the virtual cockpit even after a service pack.

Hi Robert,

 

Just a note to say that I have the Seneca and I see the animation no problems from the vc.

 

Hirdy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

= Default FSX autopilot logic. :(

 

Crap.  Then the IAS mode, almost certainly, won't work.  It's probably going to be yet another pass.  I keep having to pass on these airplanes!  Of their last twenty four airplanes, I fly two.  Guh.

 

Gregg

 

EDIT:  Hmmm...I looked it up and FSX does have IAS mode available for default autopilot for both knots (offset 07DC) and mach (07E4).  So...there's a glimmer of hope.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the same issue with the AP and the preselected altitude. On The F1 it was as it was already described above that you preselevt the altitude and the V/S and the aircraft climb or descent with given rate until reaching the preselect altitude and leveled off.

In this Carenado PC 12 you need to click on the button when you hear the altitude signal to avoid a overshooting

 

Cheers,

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have the plane yet but there are loads of videos on this bird to compare against which is nice.

 

Last minute and a half of this video - Pilatus PC-12 Approach and Landing to a (relative…: http://youtu.be/Sbs54gjqdm4

 

Um really?? most dangerous airport in the world landing Brown…:

 

Look starting at 6 minutes here...Seaport Airlines Pilatus PC-12 [Engine Start, Tak…:

 

Is it worse than that?

 

C.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Crap.  Then the IAS mode, almost certainly, won't work.  It's probably going to be yet another pass.  I keep having to pass on these airplanes!  Of their last twenty four airplanes, I fly two.  Guh.

 

Gregg

 

EDIT:  Hmmm...I looked it up and FSX does have IAS mode available for default autopilot for both knots (offset 07DC) and mach (07E4).  So...there's a glimmer of hope.

 

 

No, I'm afraid not Gregg - those offsets relate to what FSX code calls "SPD HOLD" or "MACH HLD" but are actually just referring to autothrottle hold modes.  It does not use pitch to maintain speed, as we'd want to see on this PC-12, and some of Carenado's other recent releases.

 

FSX default AP coding has no native 'speed held by pitch'  (FLC, FLCH, IAS or SPEED) functionality.   :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


No, I'm afraid not Gregg - that offset relates to what FSX code calls "SPD HOLD" or "MACH HLD" but it's actually just referring to autothrottle hold. It does not use pitch to maintain speed, as we'd want to see on this PC-12, and some of Carenado's other recent releases.

FSX default AP coding has no native 'speed held by pitch' (FLC, FLCH, IAS or SPEED) functionality. :(

 

Heavy sigh.  Yet...another...pass.  They had the same thing in their King Air and I just couldn't see 'owning' a new King Air that had a normal, commonly used autopilot feature that was eternally broken.  Should be possible to hack one if the button worked. 

 

It'll be pretty to watch in other people's screen shots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those that don't have the Flight1 PC-12, it's still a great plane and works fine in DX10 in FSX.  The visuals are a little cartoonish in the VC and there are some minor switch bugs, but it's truly fun to fly.  It's less $$$ than the Carenado but not by much.  Maybe Flight1 would put it on sale.

 

I'm tempted to wait for all of the reasons that others mentioned:

 

A/P code

cabin lights switch

soundset

frame hit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


#3, what you described is correct.

 

Meaning it is wrong or are you saying this is correctly modeled?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heavy sigh.  Yet...another...pass.  They had the same thing in their King Air and I just couldn't see 'owning' a new King Air that had a normal, commonly used autopilot feature that was eternally broken.  Should be possible to hack one if the button worked. 

 

It'll be pretty to watch in other people's screen shots.

 

I've often wished a developer would release a stand alone GA autopilot, that included a IAS mode.......  that we could then add to aircraft like Carenado's, substituting it (even if just as a pop up) for their basic default FSX autopilots.    Would be great huh?

 

To a developer, coding a IAS / FLC gauge cannot be insurmountable, after all, think of all the devs who have delivered airplanes with custom autopilotes that use a IAS / FLC mode that works perfectly;  PMDG, Level D, Aerosoft, Milviz (732 & 350i), feelThere, Flight 1 (DC-9, Mustang and T182T), Majestic, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

 

Would be great to have an addon AP that includes this functionality.

 

Fact of the day, #324:     The Flight 1 PC-12 on this occasion, used exactly the same 'fudge' as Carenado's for the IAS mode.  It utilized the FS9 / FSX default autothrottle to hold speed.   :wacko:           Since then, in Flight 1's subsequent releases, like the Cessna Mustang, King Air, and T182T, they have used a custom IAS mode coding, (integrated in to the GFC700 AP) that works perfectly and realistically.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Meaning it is wrong or are you saying this is correctly modeled?

There should be an Off/50%/100% Cockpit Dome and Off/On Cockpit Flood switches. For the Cabin Light, there is a Off/50%/100% Flood switch and Off/On Reading switch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've often wished a developer would release a stand alone GA autopilot, that included a IAS mode.......  that we could then add to aircraft like Carenado's, substituting it (even if just as a pop up) for their basic default FSX autopilots.    Would be great huh?

 

To a developer, coding a IAS / FLC gauge cannot be insurmountable, after all, think of all the devs who have delivered airplanes with custom autopilotes that use a IAS / FLC mode that works perfectly;  PMDG, Level D, Aerosoft, Milviz (732 & 350i), feelThere, Flight 1 (DC-9, Mustang and T182T), Majestic, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

 

Would be great to have an addon AP that includes this functionality.

 

Fact of the day, #324:     The Flight 1 PC-12 on this occasion, used exactly the same 'fudge' as Carenado's for the IAS mode.  It utilized the FS9 / FSX default autothrottle to hold speed.   :wacko:           Since then, in Flight 1's subsequent releases, like the Cessna Mustang, King Air, and T182T, they have used a custom IAS mode coding, (integrated in to the GFC700 AP) that works perfectly and realistically.

 

Its not insurmountable but its far from easy either. I spent approx. 3 months tuning the PID algorithms for the SP-177 in the Milviz 732 because technical data on it couldn't seem to be found. Its a highly complex endeavor that requires a good knowledge of both math and C++ programming. If Carenado only uses XML they would be in a tough spot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can the flight dynamics, like the cfg. be copied from one like plane to another? Like the Flight1 Pc-12 to the Carenado PC-12? I have always felt that the Carenado planes, while good in their own right, were way to twitchy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its not insurmountable but its far from easy either. I spent approx. 3 months tuning the PID algorithms for the SP-177 in the Milviz 732 because technical data on it couldn't seem to be found. Its a highly complex endeavor that requires a good knowledge of both math and C++ programming. If Carenado only uses XML they would be in a tough spot.

 

Sure that's true, but that's why I said 'not insurmountable' and not 'easy'  :smile: ...... many would argue that at the price point that Carenado's planes are now going out at, they should be able to expect some serious custom gauge programming, as per the sort you've referred to for your custom stuff in the MV 732.      

 

I think lack of custom coding is the main reason that people are often inclined to describe Carenado's products as "flying textures".  It's the fact that, for all the dressing, underneath the 'skin' they're always confined to default FSX functionality, even where this greatly detracts from realism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can the flight dynamics, like the cfg. be copied from one like plane to another? Like the Flight1 Pc-12 to the Carenado PC-12? I have always felt that the Carenado planes, while good in their own right, were way to twitchy.

 

 

Yes you can and I agree (with the Phenom)

 

As a matter of fact I was going to trial this FDE which had a real pc-12 pilot as the tester:

http://www.rikoooo.com/en/downloads/viewdownload/22/145

 

Instructions

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?58726-Swapping-AIR-files&s=4b0ce2a03882759df86055e6a3a77654&p=637691&viewfull=1#post637691

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The PC12 was designed to do approach landings with a nose down configuration.  This is to aid the pilot when landing at extreme alpine airports.

 

It is not a design flaw as newbie fliers of the aircraft first think..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...