Amen bro.  thanx for the clarifications.  There will always be some though, that. . . . . . .

 

......have a different opinion to yours.    That's all that it comes down to.   Crazy that we belittle and denigrate those with different opinions so much in this hobby.

......have a different opinion to yours.    That's all that it comes down to.   Crazy that we belittle and denigrate those with different opinions so much in this hobby.

I think it's more an issue being frustrated at people wanting and expecting a premium, highly accurate and dare I say it "professional" grade product, but expecting to pay entertainment prices either at the store front or via discounts. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Robert,

 

It is interesting that you make the battlefield comparison.  A closer example to the FSX->P3D scenerio might be the transition from ps3 to ps4.  EA in this case did offer an upgrade program for battlefield 4.

http://www.battlefield.com/battlefield-4/playstation-4-upgrade

 

PS3 to PS4 is certainly a further jump than FSX to P3D...at least in terms of software architecture.

 

I just bring that up as I agree with most of Corey's points and find the battlefield and FS9 737 to NGX examples to be a bit disingenuous to bring up for this current issue.  Most people would clearly see that the FS9 737 was a completely different product than the NGX.  And with the battlefield franchise there was clearly a discounted upgrade path for ps3 owners to jump to the ps4 platform.  

 

anyway this is probably picky but your examples just struck me as very odd support for your position.  EA has a history of offering these types of discounts and programs.  I'm sure you guys looked at all the pricing options and decided against any upgrade path and that's completely fine.  But if your position was platform switching/upgrade programs weren't common in the software industry i disagree with that completely.

Comparing FSX/P3D to PS3/PS4 is, in my opinion, inaccurate. FSX and P3D are different platforms. FSX and ESP have always been different platforms published same time, and coexisted. FSX was made for entertainment, while ESP was tailored toward professionals, and if I'm not mistaken, more expensive than FSX. P3D is just like XPlane (similarity with FSX notwithstanding). it is not an upgrade of FSX. it is an upgrade of ESP (someone correct me if I'm wrong here). Unlike FSX:SE which came from FSX. I don't believe that it would have been fair to expect PMDG to have produced say the 757 in such detail and have the same license for FSX and ESP, or to offer a free license for ESP because you own an FSX license.

Comparing FSX/P3D to PS3/PS4 is, in my opinion, inaccurate. FSX and P3D are different platforms. FSX and ESP have always been different platforms published same time, and coexisted. FSX was made for entertainment, while ESP was tailored toward professionals, and if I'm not mistaken, more expensive than FSX. P3D is just like XPlane (similarity with FSX notwithstanding). it is not an upgrade of FSX. it is an upgrade of ESP (someone correct me if I'm wrong here). Unlike FSX:SE which came from FSX. I don't believe that it would have been fair to expect PMDG to have produced say the 757 in such detail and have the same license for FSX and ESP, or to offer a free license for ESP because you own an FSX license.

Both FSX and P3D are based on ESP, they're just altered to suit the target audience.

Both FSX and P3D are based on ESP, they're just altered to suit the target audience.

 

Kinda...

 

FSX and ESP are closely related developments, but I wouldn't say one is "from" the other. ESP was simply the commercial version of FSX licensed to companies who wanted to use it in their certified simulators, like RedBird Simulations and so on.

Comparing FSX/P3D to PS3/PS4 is, in my opinion, inaccurate. FSX and P3D are different platforms. FSX and ESP have always been different platforms published same time, and coexisted. FSX was made for entertainment, while ESP was tailored toward professionals, and if I'm not mistaken, more expensive than FSX. P3D is just like XPlane (similarity with FSX notwithstanding). it is not an upgrade of FSX. it is an upgrade of ESP (someone correct me if I'm wrong here). Unlike FSX:SE which came from FSX. I don't believe that it would have been fair to expect PMDG to have produced say the 757 in such detail and have the same license for FSX and ESP, or to offer a free license for ESP because you own an FSX license.

I dont personally expect anything of pmdg other than to act in an ethical manner which I've seen no evidence that they haven't. My post was simply countering any argument that platform switching/upgrade programs are not common in the industry and specifically countering the mentioned battlefield game that had such a program.

 

Plus there are far more technical differences between the ps3 and ps4 than exist between fsx and prepar3d so I'm not following why you would think it would be an inaccurate comparison. Both sets are two different pairs of platforms.

Glad to see a civil discourse here. I'm looking into buying the T7 for P3D.

Gents,

 

I just removed a bunch of posts for a few reasons:

1. Providing guidance to people on valid uses for Prepar3D is not permitted on AVSIM (a policy set by AVSIM), as people usually end up providing actionable guidance instead of simply information. The former is illegal, the latter is not, but usually ends up blurring the lines here in most discussions. (See legal advice versus legal information.)
    
2. Pricing policy debates are not permitted here (a policy set by PMDG). I understand that this thread is specifically about pricing policy, but debating it - for or against - isn't really going to change things here, and usually devolves into some sort of argument that we'd prefer to avoid.
    
3. Trolling or attacking people is not permitted (a policy set by AVSIM). I don't recall taking a post out for this in this thread, but I'm just reminding people. This also carries warning points, so you'd know if it was you.

 

Gents,

 

I just removed a bunch of posts for a few reasons:

1. Providing guidance to people on valid uses for Prepar3D is not permitted on AVSIM (a policy set by AVSIM), as people usually end up providing actionable guidance instead of simply information. The former is illegal, the latter is not, but usually ends up blurring the lines here in most discussions. (See legal advice versus legal information.)

    

2. Pricing policy debates are not permitted here (a policy set by PMDG). I understand that this thread is specifically about pricing policy, but debating it - for or against - isn't really going to change things here, and usually devolves into some sort of argument that we'd prefer to avoid.

    

3. Trolling or attacking people is not permitted (a policy set by AVSIM). I don't recall taking a post out for this in this thread, but I'm just reminding people. This also carries warning points, so you'd know if it was you.

 

The first would likely be avoided if we had a thread somewhere that indicated the differences between the different licenses, or at the very least a link to someplace that we could access that information.

The first would likely be avoided if we had a thread somewhere that indicated the differences between the different licenses, or at the very least a link to someplace that we could access that information.

All that information is available on the P3D website.

The first would likely be avoided if we had a thread somewhere that indicated the differences between the different licenses, or at the very least a link to someplace that we could access that information.

 

AVSIM has asked us not to engage in, or allow discussions of the P3D license options. Their options are on their website, here: http://prepar3d.com/product-overview/prepar3d-license-comparison/

 

You must evaluate your own applicability (which may include not applicable at all) and choose the appropriate action. Neither PMDG nor AVSIM can offer guidance in this matter as licenses are legal contracts and only lawyers can offer legal advice. The legal information (can be provided by anyone) is at the link above.

I hate to rub off as a kiss-up to PMDG. But people need to realize that PMDG is NOT a penny-addon developer like Carenado or Flight One. With PMDG, everything is modeled. Its expensive not because it looks shiny like some developers, its expensive because it is a study level aircraft so a pilot can be familiarized with it before they take one up in real life. I'm not saying that everyone needs to be a real pilot to own the 777, but the 777 isn't made to do FSX Movies. 

I hate to rub off as a kiss-up to PMDG. But people need to realize that PMDG is NOT a penny-addon developer like Carenado or Flight One. With PMDG, everything is modeled. Its expensive not because it looks shiny like some developers, its expensive because it is a study level aircraft so a pilot can be familiarized with it before they take one up in real life. I'm not saying that everyone needs to be a real pilot to own the 777, but the 777 isn't made to do FSX Movies.

Excellent points. And the key point missed is that PMDG aircraft are licensed by Boeing themselves.

So I see that all my recent posts have been deleted.

Too Bad.

Theese posts started a civil and peaceful confrontation trying to explain the reasons why I feel something like buy again an already owned product, with some my questions on one side and some answers on the other side.

Not a single offensive word have been used by each side.

Evidently there is no space for different opinions in this forum, neither for constructive criticism.

So it's not worth continuing discuss here, better continue the debate in other more indipendent forums.

My feeling is that continuing to delete posts here and there (look at  facebook) neither PMDG nor AVSIM are giving a good image of themselves. 

Maybe I'm wrong. 

 

Maybe I'm wrong. 

 

It's alright dude. Vote with your wallet. Worked for me!

 

Steve McLaren