New dovetails Flight simulator due in 2016 on both Xbox One and Windows 10

[cmpbellsjc 2,963]

Ok

I'm in more or less the same boat as you.

 

I've had regular FSX running splendidly since 2008 on two different computer builds. No OOM'S, CTD's, or any of the other issues I see frequently posted here, knock on wood.

 

I use most of the popular addon sceneries and planes, everything from PMDG, most FSDT, FlyTampa, LatinVFR, and Aerosoft sceneries, UT2, UTX, etc., etc. Never even considered installing FSX:SE but have given slight consideration to P3D.

 

Although I still haven't bit the bullet on P3D since it's an on going development and would prefer to wait until they get to either what they consider a final build of the 32bit version or at some point have a 64 bit version. I like to install once and not have to keep updating it which in some cases of P3D ends up meaning wipe everything and start fresh. Not for me.

 

It will be interesting to see what DTG releases next year and if it's a viable candidate that 3PD's embrace and can develop for. Until then, I'll be happy with my FSX and Win7 and see what the future brings.

[Ebs 114]

 

 

What's the difference between a sim and a game?
What's the difference between a simmer and a gamer?
What's the difference between a PC and a console?
 
I'll give you a clue to the answer: It starts with the letter n and ends with a g.

 

Nitpicking?

 

In all seriousness though, there are of course differences between consoles and PCs, otherwise why would the two even exist?

The concept of consoles is more for the casual gamer. You wouldn't expect the average console gamer to sit in front of the XBox and plug in a HOTAS, TrackIR and Rudder Pedals. Sure, you get the odd instance of a game like Steel Battalion for the Playstation where you need a specific controller but that's more the exception to the rule. Never heard of it?...I wonder why

 

If you have a game that's being developed for PC and Consoles, then you have to cater to the control/hardware limitations of the console. If you look at Skyrim for the PC, the original interface was pretty horrible for mouse/keyboard users until the community modded in support. It's easier to force a PC user to use a console based menu system than it is to force a console user to use an interface that was designed around having a mouse and keyboard.

 

It's not all doom and gloom though, it doesn't necessarily mean that just because a game is developed for consoles that it'll be 'dumbed down' on the PC, but you can't really blame people for showing some concern based on previous games.

 

I don't personally think that DFS will replace FSX at all, but I don't think Dovetail are aiming for that either. So, people's expectations shouldn't be too high. I also think that support for FSX:SE will drop off quite a bit when DFS is released, but If it gets more people interested in P3D/X-Plane, then that can only be a good thing.

[TheFlightSimGuy 514]

Man, this is getting complicated. 

 

Did anyone realize we dont have an iota of information this sim other than it is coming to PC exclusively in 2016? Not a screenshot, not a detailed list of features, not even a planned release quarter. 

 

So how can a community of largely intelligent and articulate folks draw a conclusion about what is in the box when we havent even seen the box, none the less opened it? Everyone just keep flying and having fun (other than the professional simmer guy who does this for realism only :huh: ) and lets wait till we see something with substance. 

[TooWings 17]

So how can a community of largely intelligent and articulate folks draw a conclusion about what is in the box when we havent even seen the box, none the less opened it?

 

Even semi intelligent members like myself realise that you don't have to look in the box to be able to draw conclusions as to what's in the box.  Likewise with Dovetail's forthcoming sim/game: ....inference, intuition, guesswork, speculation, hunches, previous experience of the genre, all can play a role in divining future outcomes to a greater or lesser degree.. 

 

Einstein for example didn't consciously work out his theory of relativity but rather it came to him in a flash of intuition, a hunch, while he was relaxing.

 

So there's more to life than mere intellect and sensory awareness. Our modern day science-based culture tends to rate 'intelligence' as being based on 'left brain' critical thinking, yet this is only one half of the coin so to speak. .

 

"All great achievements of science must start from intuitive knowledge. I believe in intuition and inspiration.... At times I feel certain I am right while not knowing the reason."

- Albert Einstein:

 

Did anyone realize we dont have an iota of information this sim other than it is coming to PC exclusively in 2016?

 

Its not coming out in 2016 for definite, that's only an estimate. We know how easily such projects can overrun into the next year or two .or be scrapped altogether...so we'll have to be patient. 

 

..and Dovetail haven't said its coming to PC exclusively. Like I said, its highly likely that their flightsim game will follow their trainsim game -from PC onto XBox, and this is reflected in their latest statements mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

But I agree with when you say:  "Everyone just keep flying and having fun"

 

Have a good weekend.

[barrel_owl 304]

To divide Flight Simulation and todays Gaming is a good idea.

 

 

-A simulator attempts to achieve realism in every detail - - a game attempts to entertain, sacrificing reality.

-A simmer does whatever possible to attain as close to reality as possible - - A gamer does what ever it takes to win.

 

The point is not whether division is good or bad. Nor what the difference between a gamer and a serious simmer is or whether a developer should target today a console-based or a PC-based software either. The whole point is: how can a new flight simulator match the expectations of the broadest audience possible and be enough profitable to the developer and to third partes to justify the time and resource investment in the long term?

 

FSX would never became what it is today if it had been developed exclusively either for gamers or for simmers. In fact, it is safe to say that its incredible success was mainly due, among other reasons, to the fact it was capable to attract both. You can use it either for very basic flying, for training with Rod Machado, for pure entertainment or for a nearly professional flying with highly modeled and highly detailed aircraft, real world charts, real world approaches, real time weather etc You can use it both with default sceneries and default aircraft or with payware ATC, heavy traffic payware airports and tons of addons and eye candies, in some cases very expensive. In two words: FSX is open and flexible. How seriously and close to reality you use it is totally up to you. 

 

Looks like your are dreaming of a professional level simulator specifically intended for simmers in order to keep all gamers and casual players away. The first question you should ask yourself is: how many chances are there that this would be profitable for the developer one day? How much would you be ready to spend for it? Take a look at real aviation and you'll probably get the answer. Not 50 or 100 bucks, for sure.

 

Not to mention that most of today's professional simmers started as gamers or casual simmers yesterday. All of them still use FSX or similar simulators like P3D and X-Plane. Again: using them for gaming, for entertainment or for more serious professional-like purposes is at your own discretion.

 

To create a flight simulator specifically intended for simmers is far from being a good idea from a very simple business perspective. No matter whether on console or on PC, it will never happen, at least in my opinion. If you are looking for a professional simulator, you should probably look at the real world and start investing several hundreds dollars instead of having great expectations from the next release by DTG or LM.

 

Jim Skorna is absolutely right, in my opinion.

[Murmur 3,944]

The point is not whether division is good or bad. Nor what the difference between a gamer and a serious simmer is or whether a developer should target today a console-based or a PC-based software either. The whole point is: how can a new flight simulator match the expectations of the broadest audience possible and be enough profitable to the developer and to third partes to justify the time and resource investment in the long term?

 

[CUT]

 

Great post. The wisest words I read in this thread.

[flyforever 267]

What Microsoft did well was to enable developers to build addons.  If Dovetail makes a "core" that fits both game boxes and pc's and it's easily expandable, then it can address the many needs and interests of users.

Microsoft got too defensive about "all the core" being proprietary rather than key pieces that are proprietary, yet don't prevent 3d party developers from improving it.

tony

[Rimshot 1,143]

I'll add a new one from Obi Won:

What's the difference between a professional user and a casual user?

 

I'll give you a clue to the answer: It starts with the letter n and ends with a g.

 

 

Bert,

 

You may buy a vowel.

 

 

No I am sorry but everyone is out but Bert. He'll be out soon because he never said what vowel he would like to buy.

 

Darn, yes. I forgot. But after a good night sleep I think the answer is 'nothing'.

 

Quite an interesting discussion in this thread by the way. I for one am very much looking forward to what Dovetail will bring us. My glass is half full.

[barrel_owl 304]

Darn, yes. I forgot. But after a good night sleep I think the answer is 'nothing'.

 

Night brings counsel.

[pmb 5,137]

The whole point is: how can a new flight simulator match the expectations of the broadest audience possible and be enough profitable to the developer and to third partes to justify the time and resource investment in the long term?

Great post. The wisest words I read in this thread.

Maybe a bit of perspective: FSX has been a simulator which perfectly scaled from the casual gamer to the expert simmer. It was Microsoft who decided to split its heritage into several parts, including one for the professional user and simmer, the other one for the gamer. The division of the MSFS codebasis has not been the result of users wanting it but an act of MS.

 

The plot behind it is simple: Instead of one cash cow they want to have two of them (originally preferrred even more), and at best without having to write a single line of code themselves in the future.

 

The question is not if there are gamers and simmers, there are both of them, and they have differing foci, but if the simulator/game has enough scalability to serve both of them. It has been proven it can be done quite well, but Microsoft's present license policy prohibits this, at least within the MSFS heritage.

 

Kind regards, Michael

[pracines 823]

I think what many are forgetting is the very sad and tragic fact that while "gamers" have extremely strong Nvidia support, Creative Labs support, Intel/AMD support ,64-bit code, most of their ( as popular as MSFS is to us) games have not been around for even 10 years. We who primarily use flight simulator which has been around for what 35 years(!), think about what kind of recognition have flight simulators received from Intel, Nvidia, and Creative. We survive by the likes of Pete Dowson and other 3rd parties, even when MS was making new and improved versions. But not once did we ever acquire any assistance from the "gaming" community to give flight sims enough of a voice to have at least the support they were getting 15-20 years ago, while we were essentially alone all this time. 

 

So now does anybody think that Nvidia and Intel are going to start developing cutting edge products focused on a flight sim because its marketed to gamers and simmers? 

 

Well, of course DTG can try anything they want marketing wise, but as long as simmers blindly forget our very solitary history, you will not understand what I'm trying to convey. I will not forget, and most of us are reminded by the poor performance we get even though we have top of the line PC's ( cut back on the sliders ). Oh and OOM's, gamers don't have to deal with that and the worlds that they have can look very real and there is a lot going on in them. FS9 could/would have been 64 bit because there is so much more going on, but we are so small of a community it has not been "justified" I guess. If we had the gamers with us even FS2002 may have been 64bit and we would have had PMDG quality planes by default in FS9.   

 

We have been left in the dust by the gaming/computing industry long ago, and maybe DTG is trying to repair this damage, If this is their intention then good. I personally don't think that gamers are going to flock to this new sim, but I hope to be totally wrong.

 

I truly do hope to be wrong about the possible failure of DTG's attempt to appeal to gamers. But just answer the question, where have gamers been all this time?... 35 years!!!     

[TheFlightSimGuy 514]

Even semi intelligent members like myself realise that you don't have to look in the box to be able to draw conclusions as to what's in the box.  Likewise with Dovetail's forthcoming sim/game: ....inference, intuition, guesswork, speculation, hunches, previous experience of the genre, all can play a role in divining future outcomes to a greater or lesser degree.. 

 

Its not coming out in 2016 for definite, that's only an estimate. We know how easily such projects can overrun into the next year or two .or be scrapped altogether...so we'll have to be patient. 

 

..and Dovetail haven't said its coming to PC exclusively. Like I said, its highly likely that their flightsim game will follow their trainsim game -from PC onto XBox, and this is reflected in their latest statements mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

My point was that we havent even seen the box, so how can we look in it? All we know is that the box is coming sometime next year.

 

You cant make up your own assumptions about what you think the company will do without any sort of empirical evidence to back it. You have never seen a flight sim from Dovetail nor have you ever seen them deliver a project late or seen how they release console ports.

 

So where are you coming up with this idea that they wont deliver on the date they laid out? What logic is behind your statement that they will suddenly decide to develop their flight sim for console when they have been public about their plans with their other titles while maintaining that they have no console plans for their flight sim? 

 

The speculation is wild and baseless, people are just pulling these definitive conclusions out of thin air with nothing to hold them up. This is what is frustrating about armchair devs. 

 

But just answer the question, where have gamers been all this time?... 35 years!!!     

 

Playing every genre of game available, including "Flight Sim" games. 

[JSkorna 137]

 

 

So now does anybody think that Nvidia and Intel are going to start developing cutting edge products focused on a flight sim because its marketed to gamers and simmers?

 

If that's where the money is, you bet. You see, it's still true: money talks and b.s. walks.

[TheFlightSimGuy 514]

If that's where the money is, you bet. You see, it's still true: money talks and b.s. walks.

 

Exactly, and I dont know what specialized hardware Nvidia and Intel would need to offer us. Even Level-D full motion training systems use Intel and Nvida cards, so what would flight simmers need thats different? 

[JSkorna 137]

 

 

so what would flight simmers need thats different?

 

A 10GHz processor, LOL.