New dovetails Flight simulator due in 2016 on both Xbox One and Windows 10

[spesimen 135]

I think what many are forgetting is the very sad and tragic fact that while "gamers" have extremely strong Nvidia support, Creative Labs support, Intel/AMD support ,64-bit code, most of their ( as popular as MSFS is to us) games have not been around for even 10 years. We who primarily use flight simulator which has been around for what 35 years(!), think about what kind of recognition have flight simulators received from Intel, Nvidia, and Creative. We survive by the likes of Pete Dowson and other 3rd parties, even when MS was making new and improved versions. But not once did we ever acquire any assistance from the "gaming" community to give flight sims enough of a voice to have at least the support they were getting 15-20 years ago, while we were essentially alone all this time.

what the heck are you talking about? nvidia and intel are hardware companies, they don't care what software you run on their stuff. they pay little attention to any specific genre or application. in the last few years nvidia has started workign with devs on optimizing their drivers but that is because the devs ask them to, they can't rewrite history, travel back in time and re-code the inefficent engine of products released by other companies from 8+ years ago.

 

 

 

 

So now does anybody think that Nvidia and Intel are going to start developing cutting edge products focused on a flight sim because its marketed to gamers and simmers?

 

 

of course not, what would be the point? they aren't going to make cpu's specifically for poker, my little pony games, or drawing programs either, that would be a huge waste of money.

 

 

 

 

I will not forget, and most of us are reminded by the poor performance we get even though we have top of the line PC's ( cut back on the sliders ). Oh and OOM's, gamers don't have to deal with that and the worlds that they have can look very real and there is a lot going on in them.

 

 

the engine design of FSX is entirely on ACES' use of legacy code and has nothing to do with the hardware. when FSX was released it was the only game i played that didn't run at 60fps and that was almost 10 years ago. plenty of games still have crashes and OOM's there is nothing magical about that. the ones that don't, avoid them because their devs fixed the bugs, it has nothing to do with hardware. it's as simple as trapping your application calls for allocating RAM.

 

FSX simply was not designed to handle correctly all the addons that ended up getting made for it. even today lockheed hasn't been able to fix that legacy code completely although eventually they will get it i'm sure. FSX steam is significantly better about VAS usage and solving these problems as well. these are entirely due to the application developers improving the code!!! it has nothing to do with cpu hardware, or 32-bit or 64-bit at all.

 

 

 

 

FS9 could/would have been 64 bit because there is so much more going on, but we are so small of a community it has not been "justified" I guess. If we had the gamers with us even FS2002 may have been 64bit and we would have had PMDG quality planes by default in FS9.

 

 

again i think you are confused about the difference between software and hardware. that is entirely a decision made by the application developer. when fs9 was released 64-bit hardware was still extremely rare on the desktop so that would have been pointless to pursue at the time anyway.

 

 

cheers

-andy crosby

[pracines 823]

If that's where the money is, you bet. You see, it's still true: money talks and b.s. walks.

 

Now look who is spreading division....only when its convenient. I would believe it, if I found out that you buy your groceries at 7-11 cause you love convenience when it seems to make you look smart.

 

But once again you don't think about what you type; in politics for example, money and b.s. work great together, so you are wrong, its *not* "still true".    

[pracines 823]

what the heck are you talking about? nvidia and intel are hardware companies, they don't care what software you run on their stuff. they pay little attention to any specific genre or application. in the last few years nvidia has started workign with devs on optimizing their drivers but that is because the devs ask them to, they can't rewrite history, travel back in time and re-code the inefficent engine of products released by other companies from 8+ years ago.

 

Wow Andy, Have you even been on the Nvidia website in the last 15 years at all? Have you ever read driver update notes ever? Are you certain that hardware does not need or care about software and vice-versa? You seem to be confused or in the dark about such subjects. Just go to the Nvidia site now and see a huge ad on the FRONT PAGE about Metal Gear - here is the link in case you need guidance to my point  http://www.geforce.com/games-applications/pc-games/metal-gear-solid-v-the-phantom-pain/bundle

 

Please tell me why you say Nvidia does not care about software? You bet they do, and they update their drivers sometimes specific to a particular game. But my point is you will never see anything about a flight sim on Nvidias front page or see a specific driver update for a flight sim alone. And my original point about gamers getting lots of technological benefits from these companies is a reality while flight simmers don't. If you cant understand this point I'm sorry, proof is on the front page at NVidia every day for many years.

 

64bit OS was readily available in 2001 and it was able to run 32 bit apps, that was about the same time as FS2002. Now put the pieces together, if flight sim was *as popular* then, as "metal gear" is today, FS9 would likely have a 64 bit option at least. But surly FSX would have been made 64bit because there *would have been* an outcry that could not have been ignored. When flight simmers started to get OOM's in FS9 after installing the photo scenery and all the other add-ons, if we were as healthy as the gaming community we would have advanced way beyond what we have now. Read slowly: I submit that the gaming community was/is much stronger than the flight sim community, so we don't have the benefits that the gaming comunity presently has. So to sum it up, where has the gamers voices for flight simulation been? absent right? Since its a fact that they have never supported flight sims, my over all point is why does DTG think that gamers are going to support a flight sim now? Or to put it bluntly who cares that DTG is trying to appeal to gamers, what good for flight simulation have gamers ever done? Nothing.    

Edited August 9, 2015 by n4gix
Removed excessive quote. Again.

[JSkorna 137]

 

 

why does DTG think that gamers are going to support a flight sim now?

 

Because it will make them money just like it did for MS.

 

 

Now look who is spreading division....only when its convenient.

 

It's not division, it's the way business works, make money or be done. It's actually the goal of any for-profit business. B.s. only gets you so far.

[TheFlightSimGuy 514]

A 10GHz processor, LOL.

 

What do you think I should set my AffinityMask and FiberFrameTimeFraction to on that? 

 

 

 

Gentlemen, I would recommend not continuing to engage with irrational banter with an un-named individual. The rhetoric seemed familiar and sure enough there has been a similarly named character on the FSX Steam forums completely going off the deep end by referring to opponents as "She", wanting to challenge people "face to face", and generally not being able to handle rebuttals . Doesnt seem to be someone who can be reasoned with. 

 

Source: http://steamcommunity.com/app/314160/discussions/1/541907867770884859/#p2

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

I just opened my first beer on a sunny Sunday afternoon and thought I would check back in here to see what was new.....I guess that word Jim eluded to earlier was NOTHING  B)

[TheFlightSimGuy 514]

I just opened my first beer on a sunny Sunday afternoon and thought I would check back in here to see what was new.....I guess that word Jim eluded to earlier was NOTHING B)

I'm on my 3rd. Catch up.

[spesimen 135]

Gentlemen, I would recommend not continuing to engage with irrational banter with an un-named individual.

aww dang did i get trolled? i was just writing up a reply too! heh, thanks for the heads up

i'm also on #3 for a saturday night, cheers to that

 

good flyin',

-andy crosby

[Glynn 405]

 

 

nvidia and intel are hardware companies, they don't care what software you run on their stuff. they pay little attention to any specific genre or application.

 

Of course they do make products for different applications

 

Intel make the Zeon chips for business use and the overclockable K series chips that gamers

Nvidia make the quadro cards for professional Cad/3D work and the GTX range for gaming.

[TooWings 17]

My point was that we havent even seen the box, so how can we look in it? All we know is that the box is coming sometime next year.

 

But of course we've seen the box!! ..and it contains yet another Microsoft Flight Simulator variant - :smile:

 

So where are you coming up with this idea that they wont deliver on the date they laid out?

 

 I made that statement based on science.  On the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle to be exact. ;-). .i.e Dovetail will more than likely deliver the flight-sim next year as planned..but we cannot say for definite, as you did.

 

What logic is behind your statement that they will suddenly decide to develop their flight sim for console when they have been public about their plans with their other titles while maintaining that they have no console plans for their flight sim?

 

You're clearly not grasping this, so I'll spell it out again.  First of all I didn't say that Dovetail will suddenly decide to develop their flight sim for console.  What I said was: 'reading between the lines its almost inevitable that Dovetail will release a console version in due course, as they plan to do with Train Simulator and their Fishing 'sim'.

 

... they have been public about their plans with their other titles while maintaining that they have no console plans for their flight sim?

 

Again I'll spell it out for you.  Dovetail didnt say they have no console plans for their flight sim.   Show me where they said that?  What they did say was ....

 

"We have confirmed Trains and Fishing will be on XBox. There are no plans to bring [Dovetail Flight Simulator] to XBox in the immediate future."

 

Note that they said: 'immediate future'.   The Cambridge Dictionary definition of 'immediate future' is: - "The period of time that is coming next".  i.e. 'not immediately'.

 

The speculation is wild and baseless, people are just pulling these definitive conclusions out of thin air with nothing to hold them up. This is what is frustrating about armchair devs.

 

You are totally correct!! The speculation is wild and baseless, and people ARE just pulling these definitive conclusions out of thin air" in your world-view,  in your mind.   But in reality, this thread is simply a casual chat among simmer friends about a games' company producing a rehash of Microsoft's old flightsim game ...and the obvious indications appear to be that Dovetail will, in due course, port that flightsim game to XBox, as it is currently doing with it's PC-based  games Train Simulator and Fishing Simulator.    Its not rocket science.     ;-)

[spesimen 135]

Of course they do make products for different applications

 

Intel make the Zeon chips for business use and the overclockable K series chips that gamers

Nvidia make the quadro cards for professional Cad/3D work and the GTX range for gaming.

xeon and k series are rather similar architectures though... and they implement the exact same x86 instruction set! just different die sizes, cache sizes, and price points. thousand dollar server chips with huge cache sizes aren't used for fps games like 'metal gear solid' any more than they would be for a specialized flight sim game. those aren't used on desktops at all really, they mainly show up at datacenters, scientific computing at universities, etc.. its funny because for a while one of the top ranked supercomputer clusters was using a ton of playstation vector chips.. crunching numbers fast is what a good cpu does!! how those numbers are used for a game or a sim is entirely software side. even tons of hardware-based embedded controllers these days use generalized cpus such as its just all about the reduced costs of manufacturing large runs. this has been true since the dawn of the PC like the ubiquitous 6502 chip and even since the dawn of the cpu..

 

quadro and gtx the same. they are pretty much completely compatible when implenting the api used by 3d games such as direct3d or openGl!! quadro has some high end features that they enable on the die and price up to skim off of pro production budgets but those features aren't used in any significant game of any genre either, because the installed base is too low to make it worth the trouble. suggesting that 'flight sim support' could have made those cards more popular doesn't really mean anything it's just a strange argument about some idealized concept of what role hardware and software play together that isn't really relevant to what happens in practice.

 

cheers-

andy crosby

[pmb 5,137]

Here's a completely unrelated aspect. While I rearely actually use FSX:SE, I keep cheching back now and then Dovetail's FSX Insider page under

 

https://fsxinsider.com/

 

This one is maintained by Aimee Sanjari, Flight Simulation Lead from Dovetail. I like the page as they try to get/stay in contact with acknowleged 3rd party developers like A2A, ORBX and Sim720. At least from that page I get the impression DT and notably Aimee Sarjani are serious about flight and flight simulation and do not try to press people into a game environment (which probably would fail, but they could have tried).

 

This is of course FSX:SE and doesn't say anything directly about the "new" simulator, but *might* give at least some preliminary hope.

 

Kind regards, Michael

[Glynn 405]

 

 

quadro and gtx the same. they are pretty much completely compatible when implenting the api used by 3d games such as direct3d or openGl!!

 

A lot of words that don't hide the fact that your original statement was wrong.

Both companies make products targeted at specific markets, Nvidia GTX cards are targeted at gamers hence Nvidia's GTX drivers being released with optimised code for new releases.

[barrel_owl 304]

Here's a completely unrelated aspect.

 

No, it's not unrelated. This is all about what we're discussing (or, at least, what we should be discussing) here. I am using FSX-SE since the launch and I am very satisfied with the performance compared to what I had with FSX classic. I always follow the main discussions within the FSX group on Steam and I can assure you that these people are working very seriously. I was also pretty sceptical at the beginning, but since their launch they released a high number of patches, updates and betas. No fanfare, just a lot of work. I am not surprised that someone like Pete Dowson embraced their philosophy at an early stage.

 

This is why I am confident that they will release a good product. Obviously I could be wrong. All I can say, at the moment, is that, if Microsoft had worked this way since 2006 to their own product, probably we would be enjoying our dream sim today. Anyway, this will be a step forward and maybe will encourage LM to do the same, which is good for the community, in my view.

[vr-pilot 11]

 

 

This is of course FSX:SE and doesn't say anything directly about the "new" simulator, but *might* give at least some preliminary hope.

I hope you are right, but reading the OP #1 link with DTG'S "Fishing and Train simulator" mentioned, I am actually more afraid of a sim expecting you to use just a game pad for flying.

So if things go totally astray here it might be just "MS Flight 2.0 SE for Xbox and WIN10".

 

But with MS being so deeply involved we will probably see a new approach using the "microsoft hololens" and some fancy new HIDs (human input devices) for using hands and feet for cockpit interaction...  B)