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Noel

Any improvement w/ cloud impact on frame rate when using 4XSGAA in V3?

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I'm still using V2.4 and unless this was resolved, or there is a different AA algorithm that gets AA anywhere near as decent as I saw in FSX way back when, I'm likely going to hold off on moving on to V3 and hunker down until 64-bit P3D happens, if it happens.  I'm also loath to give up QW757 which I use w/ FSCaptain and I understand it doesn't work in V3, QW757 that is.  I have no idea of FSCaptain does.   I've made peace w/ the other limitations in P3D but this is a big one especially in the USA regions during the now cloudier season.  My solution has been to keep cloud draw distance to 60 and density to the lowest, and that's tolerable but still it chokes in places.  It seems intuitive that their most be a flag of sorts that cloud textures *should* have that prevents SGAA from being applied, but I don't really understand it.  It would be nice to know if this issue has been greatly addressed since 2.4.  2XSGAA is another coping strategy, but 4X is preferred.  I'm using a single GTX Titan.

 

Thanks in advance

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With many clouds and 4 xSGSS setting my frames still drop like in V2.5.

Overcast with ASN and cloud draw distance set to 90 miles I still get only 20 fps depending on the angle of view in the 777 despite of a GTX 980.

So concerning this point I saw no difference to V2.5.

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    Agree with Severn, performance still drops in heavy clouds. I don't see 64 bit fixing this, as you will still need a good cpu to process the data. whether it'll be x64 or x32, makes no difference. Maybe down the road, nVidia/AMD, will come up with a new form of AA for dx12.

Considering AMD's Mantle is at the core of dx12, I expect AMD to step back into the light, as far as gpu performance in games.

 

just my .02c.

 

regards, Craig

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Thank you, I'll hold pat then for now. I have a good GPU, reasonably good still. But in my mind the issue is that cloud textures shouldn't require much if any AA applied to look correct and therefore the solution to this is not best dealt w/ by increasing processing power but by changing how AA is applied to cloud textures, so to decrease processing demand. This seems so obvious that I have to guess somehow, some fundamental way, it's not possible to do--i.e., it's baked into how all texture the graphics engine processes must respond, so w/o a total rebuild in the engine or a massive improvement in GPU processing power we're stuck w/ the really, really bad bottleneck.

 

I'd love to hear some expert comment on this perplexing and apparently persisting issue.

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I remember reading in one of Rob Ainscough's posts a while back that LM had actually looked at working on excluding clouds from AA. I believe LM cited issues with comparability as the reason they did not go ahead with it. This was back in V2.5.

 

I was hoping that we may have had this with V3 but unfortunately not. Without some level of SGSS I find it difficult to achieve the level of AA I am satisfied with.

 

Michael M

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Flew a short flight in the NGX yesterday with a solid overcast rendered by ASN. Problem was not FPS, but horrible stutters. However, if I turned off SGAA (2x) in Nvidia Inspector and MSAA (2x) within P3D v3, stutters went away. Also, my GPU load (GTX 970) was 99 % during the stutter fest, so I suspect that was the problem.

 

So no, these issue have not been resolved.

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<p>'<span style="color: rgb(40, 40, 40); font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 22px;">my GPU load (GTX 970) was 99 % during the stutter fest, so I suspect that was the problem.'</span></p>

<p> </p>

<p>This bottleneck is the other giant elephant in the room beside VAS depletion which apparently was addressed some in V3. $200 more for this? No thanks!  The last thing this needs is 3-way SLI to solve this software design problem.  Pathetic, really.</p>

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I've also found the P3D AA quite lacking, but I'm tolerating it for now.

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22160032448_78dff511c9_o.png

 

This is with 4x sgaa 4x msaa and 8x AF @ 1440p My frames were a solid 35 area.

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I'm using 2X DSR (no SGSS) with almost no performance impact in dense overcast with OPUS.

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   It is not LM's job to provide better AA processing, that is for MS, (direct x) and the gpu manufacturers. LM are just using the tools they have been given. By that, I mean, ESP, DX11, and all of the warts that go with them. DX12 has some rather interesting new tech under the hood, but LM will have to, once again, rebuild the graphics engine from the ground up to implement it. I would love to have better AA inside P3D3; maybe in 2 years, we'll see that in a LM flightsim. On the bright side, 2016 is "steam"-ing just around the corner.

  Again, just my .02c.

 

regards, Craig.

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The amount of AA mainly depends on the quality and kind of textures for the aircraft panels or scenery. For example, Carenado Kingair C90B shows horrible shimmering at the panels with P3D internal AA. This can nearly completely eliminated using 4 x MSAA P3D internal and 4x SGSS in Nvidia Inspector. But then fps drop from 100 fps to 70 fps (@ unlimited). Still good fps, but 30 % drop.

 

Therefore, you must do a comprimise when you have such shimmering aircrafts / sceneries: my current setting is 8x MSAA internal and 2 x SGSS in NI. Still shimmering, but fps drop is only to 90 fps. There was one thread by Word Not Allowed, suggesting to use 8 x SS transparency in NI, but that does not work with heavy shimmering panels.

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   It is not LM's job to provide better AA processing, that is for MS, (direct x) and the gpu manufacturers. LM are just using the tools they have been given. By that, I mean, ESP, DX11, and all of the warts that go with them. DX12 has some rather interesting new tech under the hood, but LM will have to, once again, rebuild the graphics engine from the ground up to implement it. I would love to have better AA inside P3D3; maybe in 2 years, we'll see that in a LM flightsim. On the bright side, 2016 is "steam"-ing just around the corner.

  Again, just my .02c.

 

regards, Craig.

 

Since AA is perfect in a lot (if not most) games I'd say MS and the GPU manufacturers have done their job...? Nothing wrong with the tools, it seems to me.

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    AA works in most games designed, from the ground up, over the last 3-4 years. P3D is a patchwork of technologies dating back to the last century. Besides DTG, who else is spending money on such old tech, and being successful? LM have been doing their best to turn the pig into a beauty queen. They have added new functionality/capabilities into v3, that was not possible in ESP/FSX. (ie, see the user video of P3D3 running on 3x4k screens, aka, that's a lot of pixel pushing...) There is much that can be improved in P3D, but I do not expect to see a brand new, built from the ground up sim, coming from LM in the near future. The most I expect to see from LM is; dx12, and x64, before the end of the decade. This is only my opinion. I do not keep up on the latest AAA gaming titles, so I am most definately out of the loop on that tech. 

 

  Regards, Craig

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just got V3 here, and AA is working much better then V2.4 I dont even need 4XSGAA clouds look stunning.

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just got V3 here, and AA is working much better then V2.4 I dont even need 4XSGAA clouds look stunning.

So you believe they changed AA in V3?   And why may I ask did you comment that 'colds look stunning'?  I never thought any kind off AA had any significant effect on clouds one way or the other.

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I see an impact with just 2X SGSAA. SGSAA performance doesn't seem to be impacted as severely by clouds in FSX, where 4X SGSAA barely makes it sweat, so I wonder what gives here. Is it practical for LM to somehow tag the cloud sprites to be ignored when antialiasing is active? Is that even possible?

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Has anyone tried the new Rex soft clouds in V3? I use 4XSGSSA in NVI. There's a little bit of drop with heavy clouds, but not too bad. However, you need NVI for 3rd party stuff. The default V3 works fine without NVI.

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Still using 4xSGSS NI setting. PMDG cockpits look sharper. Same with A2A C172 .Until now I did see much perfomance difference with v.5. On heavy weather I turn off volumetric fog and terrain shadows, this helps a little, as before.

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For me, 4xSGSS is a must-have to control shimmering.  With P3D3 on a 4790K at 4.6 GHz and a 980, 4xSGSS worked well (locked at 30 fps) until a lot of cloud cover comes into view, at which time GPU usage spikes rapidly up to 99% and frames drop intermittently into the low 20s, and some regular microstuttering begins due to the high GPU load.  I'm using an SHD monitor at 2560x1600...a 1080p monitor with half as many pixels per frame should fare a bit better.

 

Last night I swapped out the 980 for a pair of water-cooled overclocked 980Ti video cards in SLI, and now at same settings with 4xSGSS both GPUs peak at ~80% and frames stay pinned at 30.

 

So clouds+4xSGSS is still a heavy hit in V3, but the good news is that you have the old option of reducing settings (why leave shadows on in heavy clouds anyway?) and now you can actually use the brute force of added GPU power to your advantage. 

 

Regards

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Am using 2/4xSGSS since day one of v2.x so as for v3. With REX soft clouds i dont see any mayor drop in performance on my 5820k SLI 980 here. Both 980s have a load of around 60% when flying through clouds. 

 

Checkout this video. Besides the effect artefacts induced by SLI in v2.5 the performance isnt that bad concidering its the NGX im flying here. In v3 the SLI induced artefacts are history and the performance is a bit better. I fly on a BenQ FullHD beamer.

 

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So you believe they changed AA in V3?   And why may I ask did you comment that 'colds look stunning'?  I never thought any kind off AA had any significant effect on clouds one way or the other.

I can only compare from 2.4 or FSX as I did not have 2.5. But the AA is working better and much smoother then 2.4.

 

As far as clouds go, the reason they look so much better is because before when you flew through them and looked to the side you could see all the different layers one after another as it made up the cloud. NOW its just cloud, any direction, no visible layers. just like in real life as you fly through the clouds. Never had that in FSX.

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