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OmniAtlas

Tesla Model III

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So we both pre-ordered new cars. I ordered a 2016 Lexus IS-350 (non-sport)  :smile:

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Closest I'll ever be to using an autopilot system :) 

 

I've pre-ordered, anyone else in the same boat? Probably won't be here in Sydney until 2018...it will be a long wait.

 

http://www.theverge.com/2016/3/31/11335272/tesla-model-3-announced-price-release-date-specs-preorder

My son stood in line in Austin Texas for 4 hours to place his order. He went back to work and told Michael Dell they better look at a 400% increase in Electric Charging stations in their Round Rock Complex because he recognized about a hundred Dell badges while in the queue.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

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This is how the dash board / HUD might look :)

 

HUD1.jpg

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I don't want the car but I pre-ordered one just as a tax-subsidy-eligible flip opportunity. The full electric vehicle tax incentive of USD$7500 only applies to the first 200,000 vehicles sold here (and will probably be reached in 2018) so an early order was important. I suspect some 10-20% of the pre-orders here in the US were made for the same reason.

 

Doug

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Ludicrous? Really?

http://puu.sh/o9CV1.jpg

 

Yes really!

 

I have two family members that own the Model S.  The acceleration in that mode is indeed "Ludicrous"!

 

Todd

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We added our name to the buy list ... think we're 284,112 (not kidding).

 

 

 


Ludicrous? Really?

 

For a luxury car the Tesla S P90D is 762 HP (eletric HP of course, but its the same as dino HP), it does indeed accelerate extremely well for such a heavy luxury car 4936 lbs and has a very good CG (much lower then traditional dino engine based cars).

 

My wife has a Nissan Leaf now (2016 with bigger 35Kw motor 124mi range) and zero to 60 is pretty quick ... it drives so well in daily traffic and overtaking is effortless and there is no noise.  We also got $2500 cash back from CA and another $7500 tax credit (real tax credit not some deductable, but a credit).  CA and Feds are starting to change the tax rules and credits making it more difficult because of the increase in electric vehicle usage, but we've driven over 6000 mi for free in just a few months.

 

Some of the false perceptions about electric cars:

 

1.  They're more complex - False they're actually much more simple, they don't require an oil system (pumps, sumps, coolers), they don't require alternators, there is no oil based aux power steering system, no spark plugs, no fuel injectors, no fuel system, simple cooling solutions etc. etc. ... there is so much more interior space because designers can put drive components in places they never could before.

 

2.  They're not as safe ... False, carrying around 10-40 gallons of gasoline is FAR more dangerous than many battery cells.

 

3.  They're slow ... False, electric motors can produce considerably more torque than dino motors and don't have "power bands" (i.e. no need to get rpms up to get power)

 

4.  Limited Range ... False, range is 100mi to 400mi (pending eV choice) and quick charge time is anywhere from 30min-60min and you'll find "free" charge stations all over the US

 

5.  Have to buy a charge Station for home ... False, most EVs will charge on standard outlets, However, if you want rapid charging then yes, you'll need to buy a home charge station for about $500 (I installed ours to 220-240v line).

 

6.  Your electric bills will increase ... Maybe, depends, our home is solar so the change isn't noticeable, one can also get special night time power rates from power companies if they let them know you charge an EV ... for those days that aren't sunny.  

 

We got our Nissan Leaf 2016 for $35,000, after dealer rebates ($5500), CA credit ($2500), and Fed credit ($7500) we got the car new for $19,500 fully loaded with Nav and all the comfort creatures of any modern dino car, we save about $300/mo in gas costs.

 

The future is here, and dino car days are numbered ... but even for die hards, it makes economical sense to go EV as it will save one a bunch of money that could be better spent on things like $1000 YOKO Yokes ... hehe  

 

Cheers, Rob.

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Interesting read Rob! Thanks for sharing and I agree, dino car days are numbered.

 

JJ

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How do you find out what number you are on the list. I think the pre-order has topped over 300,000 now. 

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Ludicrous is a pretty good word for the acceleration. Search youtube for the Tesla vs Aussie V8 Touring Car...

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When I saw that "Ludicrous" it made me chuckle and think of "Space Balls"... :LMAO:

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This car can go to plaid!

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I am curious. If 300,000 of these did replace an equivalent number of your average gasoline vehicles, what is the net effect on carbon production and energy production considering the increased demand on the electric grid for charging versus decreased vehicle fuel burn?

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carbon production and energy production considering the increased demand on the electric grid for charging versus decreased vehicle fuel burn?

 

Depends on a lot of factors, our home is solar so NO demand on grid during sunlight hours.  But even the best gasoline/oil based engines have a pretty horrible efficiency (20-30% https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_efficiency) from the energy produced from ignition of gasoline.  It also depends on how "the grid" is powered ... hydro, solar, nuclear, renewable http://www.pge.com/en/about/environment/pge/cleanenergy/index.page

 

As far as managing carbon production, it's far easier to manage thru large power companies than billions of motorist.

 

In terms of electric vehicle output, 762 HP is just early days, I would fully expect that output to double as the transition from gasoline to electric progresses.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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i understand in the end, it depends on a lot of different factors. So let's simplify the question and narrow the scenario for the sake of trying to achieve something of an apples to apples comparison. If you lived off the grid and totally depended on a gas powered generator for your electricity. How much would you save on fuel if you traded in your 40mpg gas vehicle for this tesla?

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Some of the false perceptions about electric cars:

Sounds to me like a pure electric-car propaganda, I never heard anyone raise those points as arguments against electric cars, except perhaps the range, range is indeed limited, if I want to drive 500+ miles (which are often do) and accomplish it in 8 or so hours in a fairly sparsely populated areas I could use perhaps a hybrid but purely electric car is of little use to me. But another point is totally missing here - price. Of course I do understand that if your primary use of the car is commute to work or drive around town - electric car could be a Godsend.

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Sounds to me like a pure electric-car propaganda, I never heard anyone raise those points as arguments against electric cars, except perhaps the range, range is indeed limited, if I want to drive 500+ miles (which are often do) and accomplish it in 8 or so hours in a fairly sparsely populated areas I could use perhaps a hybrid but purely electric car is of little use to me.

 

I'm not defending the Tesla brand.  I'm only providing info to educate.

 

https://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger

 

As you can see on the map there are currently over 600 Tesla supercharger stations nationwide and that number will increase this year.  Click the "2016" on that page to see the number of locations expected by the end of the year.  The supercharger locations are spaced about every 170 miles or less.  A 20 minute charge at a supercharger station will allow another 170 miles on top of whatever range you still have at the time of recharge.  There is no cost to use a supercharger.

 

Two weeks ago today I took a family member to Fremont CA to pick up his new Model S.  The return trip was from Fremont to the Los Angeles area.  He recharged twice along the sparsely populated I-5 each time taking 20 minutes.  So at least if you own a Tesla a long distance trip is very real if you don't mind stopping for 20 minutes every 150 to 200 miles.

 

Todd

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So let's simplify the question and narrow the scenario for the sake of trying to achieve something of an apples to apples comparison.

 

Ok, but your situation isn't really a comparison?  But "I think" what you are trying to ask is what is the level of energy efficiency of EV vs. Gas engine?  EV's are between 47-64% efficient vs. gasoline 20-30% efficient.  How and what power you obtain is your choice ... if you're using a gasoline generator, then I assume you need to get delivery of gasoline or pickup the gasoline so you'll have to factor that into your situation.

 

 

 


Sounds to me like a pure electric-car propaganda, I never heard anyone raise those points as arguments against electric cars

 

Propaganda?  For what reason?  Do you own an EV?  We get asked those questions frequently by friends and strangers out on the road.  Natural evolution of economics and energy efficiency, no propaganda ... cheaper and more efficient ways to accomplish the same task.  I view this change as no more different than buying a more recent CPU with that uses less energy ... just natural progress.

 

I understand your use case, but 500mi without a rest stop, you have one strong bladder. (I must be getting old) -- a 30min fast charge along your journey would get you over 600mi in 8 hours and 30 mins, but as EV ranges continue to increase they'll eventually surpass even 60 gallon duel tank diesel trucks.

 

Give EV charge stations sometime to spread to remote locations, gas stations had 100 year head start.

 

Cheers, Rob.

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Ok, I think you ate starting to understand my question. All I am trying to get at in order to comparison shop is; if I replaced my gas car with this ev, to go the same distances, how much of an increase will there be in electricity usage cost? Will it be the same as what I would have incurred in gas with the gas vehicle? Or would the increase in electricity cost be less than what I saved in gasoline, providing a net savings. And if so, how much? It is a simple question.

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Ok, I think you ate starting to understand my question. All I am trying to get at in order to comparison shop is; if I replaced my gas car with this ev, to go the same distances, how much of an increase will there be in electricity usage cost? Will it be the same as what I would have incurred in gas with the gas vehicle? Or would the increase in electricity cost be less than what I saved in gasoline, providing a net savings. And if so, how much? It is a simple question.

 

If you use a Tesla supercharger the cost is zero no matter how far you drive.  If you charge the car at home then you can figure out your costs here using the calculator at the bottom of the page..

 

Todd

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Ok, now that is what I was looking for. So it looks like the ev costs $0.039 per mile while the 37mpg gas vehicle costs $0.054 per mile at gas of $2.00/gal and electricity of $0.12kwh. About a 27% savings from gas. Which seems to correlate with the roughly 20% efficiency difference between ev and gas expressed earlier.

 

But if the time of charge from their calculator is hours and minutes, then gas has a huge advantage in time value or flexibility, as the ev looks like it costs you 2 minutes of charging time per mile. While with a gas vehicle, it only costs you, for a 6 minute stop at a self serve station for a 15 gallon fillup, 0.64 seconds of filling time per mile.

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But if the time of charge from their calculator is hours and minutes, then gas has a huge advantage in time value or flexibility, as the ev looks like it costs you 2 minutes of charging time per mile. While with a gas vehicle, it only costs you, for a 6 minute stop at a self serve station for a 15 gallon fillup, 0.64 seconds of filling time per mile.

 

I don't understand how charging time per mile is relevant.  Driving a gas vehicle using your numbers over a distance of 555 miles would require a 6 minute stop and then you could go another 555 miles.  That's 12 minutes of re-fueling time over 1100 miles.  Now it's absolutely true that going the same distance on one continuous trip in a Tesla would require a minimum of 80 minutes recharging time (4 supercharger stops at 20 minutes each) which is significant but the cost of that trip would be zero vs your $60 gas expense at $2 per gallon.  Remember the Tesla has a 250 mile range.  If you recharge in 170 miles you still have 80 miles unused so a 20 minute supercharge would get you another 250 miles or to another supercharger where you would rinse and repeat.

 

But if your daily trips are 250 miles or less then there is no time loss because you're charging the vehicle for 9 hours while sitting in your garage at home.  Your same gasoline vehicle is sitting in the garage not moving for 9 hours also.

 

So what is the point of filling/charging time per mile?  The real comparison is the cost of recharging at home which you figured a 27% savings and the cost of recharging on the road which there is none. 

 

Again I understand the time loss recharging on a long road trip but the question each individual has to ask, is the zero cost worth the extra time needed to go the same distance?

 

For some, yes.  For others, no.  Apples to Oranges comparison.

 

Todd

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Remember the Tesla has a 250 mile range. 

Is it Tesla 3 or S? 

Tesla S 90kWh has a range of just about 250 m at 70 mph (assuming flat terrain).

I prefer to talk Tesla S since 3 doesn't really exist yet, we don't know what car it will be, what options, interior, prices, etc.

I have no problem with all your calculations except the price of the actual car is conspicuously left out.

Tesla S with that range that's almost $80K, almost twice as much as I am about to pay for a very nice and rather luxuriously appointed Lexus, brand new, and not one of their tiny hybrids.

Perhaps one day there will be a Tesla that will make immediate sense for me in terms of all the factors I care about.

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