P3D is moving forward all right, courtesy of 1000's of folks who have paid $50 and up for the privilege of being a beta tester.  Indeed clever marketing.

Other than an expression of your opinion, to which you are entitled, so what? If it weren't for marketing we'd all have very little.

 

As for being a beta tester, welcome to the real world - it's been that way for MANY years and it's not about to stop.

 

The nice thing - you ALWAYS have the option to do your own thing. Only thing, as I see it, if one waits for a COMPLETELY bug free product - we'd all be playing pong.

 

OH, BTW, at 79 years old I STILL don't consider myself one of the "old guys". The fact that I have shoes older than some of you, notwithstanding!

 

 

Vic

Yeah, the dreaded 'cartoon look'..

 

Beautiful shot  :wink:  DTG has a some work to do 

By old I didn't necessarily mean the physical age. I ment the lack of interest in improving and moving forward. If you've decided that FS9 or FSX or anything else for that matter is the ultimate solution and your mission is to always point out everything that is wrong with other solutions even though you really have no clue what's going on, you will not evolve.  Any correlation with physical age is of course coincidental.

 

If you're happy with what you have, that's perfect. If you however for example claim that you stay with FS9 because the lowres tetris shaped looking clouds look better than the highdef hardware accelerated clouds in P3D, I find it hard to take you seriously.

I forgot the flight dynamic improvements.

 

There have been several listed at the p3d forum.

 

Improved Crosswind handling and increased altitude loss in turns I believe were added recently,

 

 

For starters, My 3 A2A birds all would have to be re-purchased ($150). My Pilatus Porter from FSD certainly won't install into P3D--it's comfortable only with DX9, lol!  But it's one of the best bush planes in my hangar.

 

So you think DTG's next sim or the one after the next sim is going to solve this re-purchase issue?  I'm 99.9% certain none of those will work "as is" in DTG's next couple of product offerings.  Your message seems very contradictory.  The odds of you getting existing FSX/FS9 products working in P3D are far far better than in a 64bit DTG simulator (in order of many magnitudes better in favor of P3D).

 

If FSX, or FS9 users want to stay FSX/FS9 users for whatever reason then so be it (not my concern), doesn't have any impact to the rest of the flight sim world moving forward.  P3D V2.x started the ball rolling significantly and has a 3+ year head start on DTG.  

 

But if you want to promote your platform of choice the best place to do that is IN that forum (AVSIM has a new DTG forum now).  Bringing one's "love" of DTG into a P3D forum isn't achieving anything, if anything it just exposes weakness.

 

The best way to promote your platform of choice is to do that in a positive manner in that forum.  If you find yourself seeking out "competitor" forums to promote your single platform of choice, then that act alone would indicate a weakness in your selected platform.

 

It doesn't matter what you or I do, the platform that will be "on top" in terms of 3rd party support and "active" user base will be determined by what that platform delivers to the end user ... no amount of inaccurate information, misguidance, pretending to be a lawyer/judge, or whatever else is dreamed up will sway the reality of what a platform can deliver to a user's specific needs.

 

If you don't want to believe the sales numbers 3rd party are providing, that's entirely your choice ... proof is in the pudding, how many products  have been released recently that don't have P3D support vs. ones that do?

 

Cheers, Rob.

Beautiful shot  :wink:  DTG has a some work to do 

 

Not a single default P3D element is in that shot. The sky, the grass, the plane, the airport, the clouds are all addons. So I would say if they have 3rd parties providing the addons you see in these shots, they will likely be just fine. 

 

Looks almost as good as my fs9. So much for advancement in flight simming.

 

Lol! Touche!

 

So you think DTG's next sim or the one after the next sim is going to solve this re-purchase issue?  I'm 99.9% certain none of those will work "as is" in DTG's next couple of product offerings.  Your message seems very contradictory.  The odds of you getting existing FSX/FS9 products working in P3D are far far better than in a 64bit DTG simulator (in order of many magnitudes better in favor of P3D).

 

If FSX, or FS9 users want to stay FSX/FS9 users for whatever reason then so be it (not my concern), doesn't have any impact to the rest of the flight sim world moving forward.  P3D V2.x started the ball rolling significantly and has a 3+ year head start on DTG.  

 

But if you want to promote your platform of choice the best place to do that is IN that forum (AVSIM has a new DTG forum now).  Bringing one's "love" of DTG into a P3D forum isn't achieving anything, if anything it just exposes weakness.

 

Rob he didnt say a single thing about DTG in his post. He was comparing the cost/value tradeoff for him in P3D vs FSX. Kinda hard for anyone to put forth an argument for/against a sim that isnt even released yet isnt it? 

Folks who are committed to PD3 should remember that LM is not a computer games business and their continued supply of PD3 depends on a continued market for that product to their primary customer base, and the continued employment of a small cadre of experts. Retirements, market changes, R&D funding refocuses, and PD3 is over. Good to maintain a back up position.

Yes, I'm aware of the VAS issues you have mentioned and the possibility of avoiding those issues (mostly) with a 64-bit flight sim.  But your last statement is more to the point.  As developers become more demanding in writing their applications for 64-bit, the more are the demands made on the simmer's hardware.  It will require, it seems to me, a likewise upgrade in our hardware to keep up with the demands placed on it by developers.  At least this is one of the points I took away from Venema's original assertions over at the Orbx forums.

 

Initially, what 64-bit would allow is for developers to use the resources that are *already* at hand, without requiring any hardware upgrades at all. It's actually like a free hardware upgrade.  Any modern PC has at least 8 GB of RAM, many have 16 GB or more. Allowing the sim to tap into that large pool of unused resources will allow developers to do new things. More importantly, it might actually improve performance as the sim can be written to use more memory for caching and pre-loading data that currently has to be loaded "on the fly" due to memory restrictions. The scenery for your destination airport could be pre-loaded and kept in RAM rather than having to be loaded from the HDD/SSD and composited when you're on final approach (with the associated stutters, lurches and scenery features popping in at this critical moment), for example.

 

Developers are obviously interested in selling their products, so they can't raise the requirements so much that people can't use their produts. Besides, complex add-ons already require 4.5 GHz CPUs and GTX 980's to perform at their best. How can the requirements be raised when they already require the very best hardware?

Folks who are committed to PD3 should remember that LM is not a computer games business and their continued supply of PD3 depends on a continued market for that product to their primary customer base, and the continued employment of a small cadre of experts. Retirements, market changes, R&D funding refocuses, and PD3 is over. Good to maintain a back up position.

 

A very good point silverheels2!!!

So you think DTG's next sim or the one after the next sim is going to solve this re-purchase issue?  I'm 99.9% certain none of those will work "as is" in DTG's next couple of product offerings.  Your message seems very contradictory.  The odds of you getting existing FSX/FS9 products working in P3D are far far better than in a 64bit DTG simulator (in order of many magnitudes better in favor of P3D).

 

If FSX, or FS9 users want to stay FSX/FS9 users for whatever reason then so be it (not my concern), doesn't have any impact to the rest of the flight sim world moving forward.  P3D V2.x started the ball rolling significantly and has a 3+ year head start on DTG.  

 

But if you want to promote your platform of choice the best place to do that is IN that forum (AVSIM has a new DTG forum now).  Bringing one's "love" of DTG into a P3D forum isn't achieving anything, if anything it just exposes weakness.

 

The best way to promote your platform of choice is to do that in a positive manner in that forum.  If you find yourself seeking out "competitor" forums to promote your single platform of choice, then that act alone would indicate a weakness in your selected platform.

 

It doesn't matter what you or I do, the platform that will be "on top" in terms of 3rd party support and "active" user base will be determined by what that platform delivers to the end user ... no amount of inaccurate information, misguidance, pretending to be a lawyer/judge, or whatever else is dreamed up will sway the reality of what a platform can deliver to a user's specific needs.

 

If you don't want to believe the sales numbers 3rd party are providing, that's entirely your choice ... proof is in the pudding, how many products  have been released recently that don't have P3D support vs. ones that do?

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

DTG's main business now is their Train Simulator. They are planning on releasing, as soon as they finish it, a new Train Simulator with a new graphics engine that will be 64 bit. They are already telling the owners of their Train sim  32 bit system that none of their content, which many times runs into thousands and thousands of dollars worth, will work with the new 64 bit  version. For this reason, DTG will continue to support the 32 bit version for their legacy customers.  Anyone that thinks that if DTG releases a 64 bit flight  sim, and  32 bit content they have now in FS and P3D  will work in the DTG sim, is in for a big surprise I am afraid .  I suspect that when the new sim is released, that DTG will also have some new content to go along with it, that will not be cheap. That is how DTG has made money for years, selling content for their sim. 

So you think DTG's next sim or the one after the next sim is going to solve this re-purchase issue?  I'm 99.9% certain none of those will work "as is" in DTG's next couple of product offerings.  Your message seems very contradictory.  The odds of you getting existing FSX/FS9 products working in P3D are far far better than in a 64bit DTG simulator (in order of many magnitudes better in favor of P3D).

 

If FSX, or FS9 users want to stay FSX/FS9 users for whatever reason then so be it (not my concern), doesn't have any impact to the rest of the flight sim world moving forward.  P3D V2.x started the ball rolling significantly and has a 3+ year head start on DTG.  

 

But if you want to promote your platform of choice the best place to do that is IN that forum (AVSIM has a new DTG forum now).  Bringing one's "love" of DTG into a P3D forum isn't achieving anything, if anything it just exposes weakness.

 

The best way to promote your platform of choice is to do that in a positive manner in that forum.  If you find yourself seeking out "competitor" forums to promote your single platform of choice, then that act alone would indicate a weakness in your selected platform.

 

It doesn't matter what you or I do, the platform that will be "on top" in terms of 3rd party support and "active" user base will be determined by what that platform delivers to the end user ... no amount of inaccurate information, misguidance, pretending to be a lawyer/judge, or whatever else is dreamed up will sway the reality of what a platform can deliver to a user's specific needs.

 

If you don't want to believe the sales numbers 3rd party are providing, that's entirely your choice ... proof is in the pudding, how many products  have been released recently that don't have P3D support vs. ones that do?

 

Cheers, Rob.

Thank you for your comments.  It was not my intent to imply that DTG's next sim will alleviate any repurchase problems.  Of course, that's ridiculous.  I was merely explaining to Dominic why I was holding off in going the P3D route.  Furthermore, my intent is not to promote one platform or another.  I'm fully aware there are forums elsewhere for that purpose.  My sole reason for making the comments in the first place was to find out why P3D users consider that platform superior to FSX.  In the last few hours I have finally seen some cogent responses and reasons why those users think so, and to those gentlemen I acknowledge my thanks.

To feed the troll or not to feed the troll ... oh what the heck it's Friday.

 

About the only ones who think that are yourself and your pet Cockatoo, Richard.

 

You are ridiculous.  

 

As with all things related to boys and their toys, the cat claws come out eventually. Ill leave this discussion to those who wish to still partake in the shenanigans.

I have a game, or a sim, or whatever I am allowed to call it, to play.  

From this thread we can confirm two well-known facts:

 

1) The flightsim community is full of old guys who will defend their 15 year old FS9/FSX versions till the end. The fact that they even think it looks pretty and performs well is a clear indication that they've totally lost contact with reality.

 

FSX Steam has one and a half year. While it is not a new simulator, it has optimized VAS and optimized stability. I run it with DX10, Steve's Fixer and a shade and it is very smooth here. I get OOMs only if I want to. Looks worse than P3D? Probably yes, but I could not care less.

 

2) Lots of people still think that going 64-bit is some kind of magic silver bullet

I guess that going 64 bit will be considered an essential step as soon as LM will launch their P3D V4, which is also rumoured to be 64 bit. Until then 64 bit will just an eye-candy.

 

If bias killed, many posters would be surely dead.

My sole reason for making the comments in the first place was to find out why P3D users consider that platform superior to FSX.

 

Myself and many others have frequently listed the difference and additional features in P3D throughout it's continued development progress from v2.x to v3.2 and beyond (I have several hundred videos on it also).  Your question has been asked many times ... unfortunately many that ask this question are rarely looking for a response.  Search AVSIM and you'll find the information you seek ... if indeed you really want to know

 

 

 

Initially, what 64-bit would allow is for developers to use the resources that are *already* at hand, without requiring any hardware upgrades at all. It's actually like a free hardware upgrade.

 

That's not accurate at all ... but it's certainly what many seem to want to believe without ANY technical information relative to flight simulation to backup such a claim.  

 

64bit isn't going to speed up draw calls to the GPU, 64bit isn't going to make loading textures any faster, 64bit isn't going to make the Shader Model 5 work more efficiently, search the internet you'll find 1000's of 32bit vs 64bit game compares (Crysis for example) and their is no difference and in some cases 64bit is slower.  Did DTG's "in game" (not the rendered one) video look any faster to you even with no VC?  If 64bit was going to be significant then why didn't XP10's performance benefit from the transition to 64bit?  What you see rendered real time has very little correlation with 32bit or 64bit application address space.

 

The applications that typically benefit from 64bit are SQL server, IIS, Adobe Suite, 3DSMax, Cinema4D, DAWs ... they render/preview a little "faster" due to less need for disk I/O because of the additional addressable RAM ... but NONE of these 64bit applications are "real time simulators/games".  

 

What 64bit will bring is:

1.  Slightly less performance to a lot less performance when 3rd party start to introduce 8192 textures

2.  Incompatibility

3.  No OOMs provided one has enough VRAM and/or RAM

 

Would I like to see 64bit, yes of course I would, but "faster" it will NOT be and nothing I currently have will work without some conversion tools.  So it'll be a lonely world with several years of 3rd party conversions ahead ... but eventually it will "arrive".

 

Cheers, Rob.

Myself and many others have frequently listed the difference and additional features in P3D throughout it's continued development progress from v2.x to v3.2 and beyond (I have several hundred videos on it also).  Your question has been asked many times ... unfortunately many that ask this question are rarely looking for a response.  Search AVSIM and you'll find the information you seek ... if indeed you really want to know

Thank you for the advice. But it really wasn't fair to lump me in with the others who may or may not have been looking for a response. So I'm done with this topic.