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Toonfan

A2A C182 unflyable in P3Dv3 - anyone else?

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Ok, before you all come at me with rocks - I am not an experienced pilot, I am not an experienced simmer.

 

That being said, I can fly most addon GA planes - favorites at the moment are Quest Kodiak and Ant's Eaglet.

 

Something in my system does not agree with the A2A 182. On takeoff it lurches to the left and needs almost full rudder to stay in the middle of the runway. In the air it tries to lurch to the left and up causing stalls if I lose my attention. Trying to land is impossible because of the constant need to work the rudder to the extremes (this is probably more difficult for me as I am not an expert).

 

The issues prevent it from loading in FSiPanel as it stalls before it can be released to my control.

 

I have tried multiple reinstalls, I have tried virtually every trim setting (serious nose down seems to stop the upward lurch but results in a dive if I don't keep on top of the rudder) and I have looked for similar posts.

 

There are a few posts of similar problems with the 182, some fixed others not so sure. It doesn't seem to happen with the 172.

 

I am tempted to buy the 172 to see if it is better but it is expensive and I do not want to waste more money if this is a problem with my system.

 

Anyone else had similar issues?

 

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You're rotating too early... Let 5-10 kts more build up then rotate and apply right rudder to counteract the left turning tendencies

 

Oh you also might want to put a little forward pressure on the yoke (keep the nose down), otherwise the 182 will come up off the runway and you'll get the vigorous left bank you describe.

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You will not solve your issue buying the 172. The A2A Skylane is indeed more powerful but not a particularly difficult aircraft to drive and is definitely not a wild bronco trying to unsaddle you  ! For that you have to buy the P-51 Mustang   :wink: .

 

Be sure, as Ryan says, to respect the takeoff and climb speeds, including in taking into account possible strong crosswinds if any. Also, try to balance fuel and load. 

 

You don't say what kind of controllers you use but be sure that they are properly calibrated and cover the whole spectrum (127 not 64) as P3D requires recalibration at first.

 

Do not hesitate to go to the A2A forums too, a bunch of nice people there who know the aircraft inside out, are ready to help. 

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Just had a quick circuit round Sherburn, flies very nicely. If you haven't already, it will be worth getting a good set, I use CH, of rudder pedals as this will make life easier as most accurate aircraft demand correct use of the rudder. It has been said that in a jet, the pedals are somewhere to rest your feet but with a prop on the front that is not the case!

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Thanks guys, but I think something in my system is not playing nice with the 182.

I have tried keeping her on the ground until the speed is well past normal takeoff, but as soon as she is in the air the left lurch (serious lurch) happens.

 

I have the MFG crosswind rudder, which is supposed to be top notch, certainly works for all the other aircraft.

 

The jets fly fine and other GA fly fine, it just seems to be the 182 which upsets the system - I have also had my first freeze since reinstalling while flying the 182.

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Have you checked

 

- in the maintenance hangar (SHiFT 7)  that something is not broken/stuck in the ailerons, flaps or rudder   ? 

 

-  in the user interface, whether the rudder or aileron axis is not assigned to two controllers?

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You're rotating too early... Let 5-10 kts more build up then rotate and apply right rudder to counteract the left turning tendencies

 

Oh you also might want to put a little forward pressure on the yoke (keep the nose down), otherwise the 182 will come up off the runway and you'll get the vigorous left bank you describe.

I couldn't agree more Ryan.  In a recent reinstall of my sim, I applied ActiveSkyNext's settings to coincide with someone else's suggestions, which I quickly discovered were VERY challenging.  After firing up my Piper Cherokee from A2A, I crashed twice trying to get my bird off the ground.  Seems the windspeed at ground level was a bit too high, and I hadn't expected it.  My typical rotation wasn't working and as you say, changing flight habits helps.

 

-Jim

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I agree with the post above about the maintenance hangar, you could have a broken flap or something.

 

There is also a post over at A2A about setting up your controls. Basically it says that you should max out the sensitivity for all your axis because the sensitivity adds lag to your control inputs putting you in a situation where you are always chasing your tail. It seems counter intuitive , but it helps...

 

Might want to look at using the new calibration routines within the sim too, this is totally separate from the windows calibration.

 

One final thing, I've seen some people using the FSX version in P3D there are problems doing that, you didn't use EMT or anything did you?

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Tried fiddling with sensitivity - doesn't seem to help (usual position is max sensitive).

 

It is the native P3D version.

 

Have been in the hangar - no difference.

 

Have set weather to calm - no difference.

 

Really think there is some incompatibility going on - I might be a poor pilot but this is not as a beast as domkle pointed out, just wondered if anyone else had encountered this.

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I'd say you have a strange setting somewhere, what you describe is not a usual complaint for an A2A plane or any plane for that matter, sometimes in past it was P3D's fault, but that was addressed by LM 

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Does this happen when you try to take off fly with the mouse yoke or keyboard inputs? Might help you isolate if it's a joystick / yoke problem or not.

 

I have the A2A 182 in V3.2 and it flies like a dream. But I did crash the sucker on the first takeoff attempt because it does have very realistic flight modeling ...

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When you guys say it is a realistic flight model - do you mean that you have a constant fight with rudder and joystick to maintain level flight? I can't take my eyes off it for a second or it will lurch out of control, nightmare if trying to look around the cockpit or change a setting.

 

Will try with keyboard/mouse but i think I disabled the mouse for FSiPanel.

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You did do the calibration within P3D?

Some of what you say sounds as if joystick is too touchy. That could maybe be fixed in the P3D calibration. If the fault is not within you controller.

 

Real flight model, simply put, means the plane doesn't fly like it is on the ground, (or flys like it is on rails, as some say) you do have to control the flight path more but not to the point of "fighting" with it.

 

Maybe you programmed a button for trimming to the left and its a bad button the has continuous input, or something else.

 

The point is, A2A makes marvelous planes and the behavior that you are describing should not be coming from the modeling done by A2A.

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i too can not fly the 182... it acts ok on the ground but as soon as apply power it acts like a helicopter that cant crash. no flight model.... i dont know if this related to simconnect issue reported on a2a forums   i just dont have time anymore to test fixes.  Hopefully they will figure it out. using Prepared 3.1  I'll be back if it is fixed

 

Steve

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i too can not fly the 182... it acts ok on the ground but as soon as apply power it acts like a helicopter that cant crash. no flight model.... i dont know if this related to simconnect issue reported on a2a forums   i just dont have time anymore to test fixes.  Hopefully they will figure it out. using Prepared 3.1  I'll be back if it is fixed

 

Steve

My god Im thrilled Im not the only one! they thought I was nuts at A2a but I found a solution in FSX-se. Instead of loading the trike start with the A2A 182 as the default aircraft. Once I did this..no more helicopter. Try it ,hope it works for you. OP may as well give it a shot as well, nothing to lose

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It would be really helpful if you could record and post a short video so we can see what's going on. Honestly though it seems like it's just a matter of practice and adjustment to your technique. The 182 and Comanche, both of which have large and torque-y 6 cylinder engines, will require some right rudder during the takeoff roll and immediately after take off. *edit to clarify

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It would be really helpful if you could record and post a short video so we can see what's going on. Honestly though it seems like it's just a matter of practice and adjustment to your technique. The 182 and Comanche, both of which have large and torque-y 6 cylinder engines, will require some right rudder immediately after take off.

I like to think of it....................as just holding right rudder through the takeoff roll & initial climb out.  The whole idea is to maintain runway center line, with whatever rudder it takes.  As airspeed increases, the need for right rudder diminishes. 

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Yep, I edited my post to clarify that.. I think that Toonfan's "problem" probably stems from rudder issues and/or technique.

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To me p-factor in the A2A GA aircraft is exaggerated. For my money the A2A Cessnas require too much attention and excessive rudder input during takeoff and climb just to keep the wings level. Cranking the rudder trim 100% to the right will help some, but you still need to keep your right foot in it during climb. It almost feels like you're flying in a twin with the right engine out. Taking off with a crosswind from the right compounds the "snapping" problem on lift off due to the weather vane tendency on the ground.

 

If you keep practicing you'll eventually get the hang of it. Create a scenario where you're sitting on the runway ready for takeoff then once you get airborne reset the scenario and keep repeating until you get a feel for it. Make sure both fuel tanks are 100% full. It will help balance things out a little if you add a passenger to the right seat that's the same weight as the pilot.

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The Skylane requires a little right rudder on takeoff and climbout, certainly not to fight your way up. It is a rather tame aircraft in spite of having some real power (great plane for bush flying). There is almost no P-factor that you have to fight at takeoff (like in the early phase of a P-51 take off run for instance).  Needing to trim at 100% or pushing the right rudder all the way right (as in bimotor with a failed engine) are indications of a problem : or the aircraft has a mechanical failure in the Accusim environment or a controller (rudder or aileron) is decalibrated or disconnected. 

 

For the latter, do you check visually from the outside the 3 axis before starting the run : full deflection of rudder, aileron and elevator ? And in flight when you have the lurching issue ?

 

Balancing the load (pax, luggage) and the fuel certainly helps too . No need to fill it up at 100%. I don't as I often take off from rugged and very short strips.

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To me p-factor in the A2A GA aircraft is exaggerated. For my money the A2A Cessnas require too much attention and excessive rudder input during takeoff and climb just to keep the wings level. Cranking the rudder trim 100% to the right will help some, but you still need to keep your right foot in it during climb. It almost feels like you're flying in a twin with the right engine out. Taking off with a crosswind from the right compounds the "snapping" problem on lift off due to the weather vane tendency on the ground.

 

If you keep practicing you'll eventually get the hang of it. Create a scenario where you're sitting on the runway ready for takeoff then once you get airborne reset the scenario and keep repeating until you get a feel for it. Make sure both fuel tanks are 100% full. It will help balance things out a little if you add a passenger to the right seat that's the same weight as the pilot.

Something terribly wrong with your setup then. The 182 is a better 172. The handling is still as docile as it is in real life. I have no such issues with excessive rudder input on my a2a 182

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Something terribly wrong with your setup then.

 

If that were the case it would manifest itself with other aircraft. RealAir is noted for their realistic flight models and I have no problems at all with the Legacy on take off. A bit of right rudder during the take off roll and crank in some rudder trim during climb out and all is nice and stable. This, plus the fact that I'm definitely not alone in experiencing the A2A exaggerated p-factor issue, tells me there is nothing wrong with my setup.

 

I don't know why some people say it's "docile" and others have problems. Maybe your realism settings are not cranked up all the way to full? It's not always possible to diagnose why one person's system behaves differently than another in a forum thread. I have 35 years of flight simming experience and several hundred hours of high-wing Cessna time in real life so I feel like I have a good handle on how to set up my sim and what to expect in terms of a realistic flight model.

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In the prop department, I regularly fly eight A2A aircraft, the RealAir T-Duke (flew the Legacy in FSX too) and the Sibwings An-2, cranked up at full realism. Warthog HOTAS and CH pedals.  None of them, except two, have a strong P-factor which makes the takeoff run tricky  the P-40 and the P-51 and this is, of course to be expected (actually it is not the P factor alone which makes taking off the P-51 an interesting proposition but that is another story) . The A2A GA aircraft are no different from the Sibwings or the RealAir's. A credible flight model. The A2A 182 is a tame aircraft but with enough power to extricate you from these short dirt runways in PNG or Alaska. 

 

A good way to diagnose any issue of that sort would be to visualize the deflection of the three axis, from the outside, before the run and when a strong lurching to the left occurs. And to check in the accusim maintenance hangar that no components is broken/stuck. Also, keep in mind  to reset the triim as an A2A aircraft will keep them from one session to the other contrary to a RA or SW bird. If you don't you will take off with the trim of the last landing.

 

 Also, I had a couple of issues of that kind  when I moved to v3 from 2.5. Weird behaviour of some aircraft , prop or jet. The P3D v3 default calibration of my setup came screwed, with, for instance, a spectrum of values cut by half for the rudder, and one axis (I don't remember whether that was the ailerons or the rudder) declared twice. A general review of the controllers assignment is not superfluous.

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Might be a good idea to get out and just look at the rudder

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If that were the case it would manifest itself with other aircraft. RealAir is noted for their realistic flight models and I have no problems at all with the Legacy on take off. A bit of right rudder during the take off roll and crank in some rudder trim during climb out and all is nice and stable. This, plus the fact that I'm definitely not alone in experiencing the A2A exaggerated p-factor issue, tells me there is nothing wrong with my setup.

 

I don't know why some people say it's "docile" and others have problems. Maybe your realism settings are not cranked up all the way to full? It's not always possible to diagnose why one person's system behaves differently than another in a forum thread. I have 35 years of flight simming experience and several hundred hours of high-wing Cessna time in real life so I feel like I have a good handle on how to set up my sim and what to expect in terms of a realistic flight model.

lol, I have the realism set at full, also have approx 30 years of sim experience and approx 150 hours in 150's, 152's and 172's.

 

I also have the real air legacy and find flying a2a 182 no different in terms of p factor or need of exaggerated rudder input. I don't know why you do but it seems something at your end. Perhaps not system but maybe wear and tear as part of accusim? What you are experiencing is not normal. hope you get to the bottom of it but it's not part of the a2a flight dynamics modelling.

 

Edit.....if you are using the in game flight control settings and calibration make sure it's at full sensitivity.

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