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AnkH

A HONEST view on how P3Dv3 performs...

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Hi all,

 

Although the switch from FSX to P3Dv3 increased again my flying time over the tweaking time a lot, I still struggle sometimes due to the fact that I am suffering from rather low performance. However, when browsing through avsim and other forums, I am always amazed about FPS number reports from here and there with users running their P3Dv3 on similar builds as mine and from time to time, I start to wonder again what am I doing wrong. But, over the years I started to think that maybe it is just a "showing off" issue, that's why I created this thread and that's why I would be happy if other people come here and comment (and maybe provide THE TRICK to have high FPS numbers).

 

For a start: I use an already a little bit "aged" system with an overclocked i7-3770K running currently at 4.5GHz (HT enabled). Along with this CPU I have 2x8GB DDR3 RAM with 2133MHz clock speeds and a PALIT 980Ti Super Jetstream. I use Windows 10 and the current nVidia driver. Prepar3d is installed on a dedicated 500GB Samsung EVO SSD, Windows is on a dedicated 128GB Samsung PRO SSD. As a monitor, I use a DELL S2716DG, 1440p Monitor with 144Hz and G-Sync. To fly, I use a Madcatz Fly 5 stick and sometimes I also use TrackIR. That's about it.

 

Now: I read plenty of guides how to properly setup Prepar3d v3 and also read some threads about tweaking, especially regarding AF and FFTF. Currently I use AF=85 and no FFTF tweak, regarding the rest of the cfg, I am back to stock values for anything else. Within P3D itself, I use rather high settings, basically those of Rob Ainscough (http://www.robainscough.com/Prepar3D_V3.html) with the adaptations that I ticked all shadow boxes, all water reflections but instead have the special effects sliders both only on medium. For NVI, I also use the settings from Rob as listed on his homepage (http://www.robainscough.com/P3DV3_Settings_NI.html).

 

Using those high settings, I can almost perfectly do VFR flights for example with an A2A Cessna on a ORBX airport in nice weather with locked 30FPS. I never tested how high my FPS are when using unlimited, as my setup tends to produce blurries quiet fast using unlimited FPS.

 

However, as soon as there are slightly more cloudy conditions and/or I am using a plane harder on FPS, such as the Aerosoft Airbus, on a bigger airport such as LSZH v2 or EDDF v2, there is NO CHANCE that my FPS reach 30 anymore. Usually, I am down to 20 in such a scenario, with really overcast situation I am even down below 20. The only "trick" I found so far is using a different preset in the P3D settings I called "IFR medium", where I basically reduce the settings down to the "very low" preset from Rob (http://www.robainscough.com/P3DV3_Settings_Very_Low.html). Fair enough that he also correctly states what you get with those settings: "25-30FPS on EGLL".

 

Now, that's my reality. Without lowering the settings quiet dramatically, there is NO chance on my build that I get anywhere near this 30FPS cutoff. In the end, this thread should just calm down people who also do not reach those ominous high FPS numbers continuously reported in the avsim forums and other forums. You are not alone, guys, I almost NEVER reach those numbers :wink:

 

So, of course I would be happy if there is anything I can improve. However, if I compare my hardware with the one of Rob on his homepage, I somehow doubt that I can expect anything significantly increasing my FPS (besides lowering the settings even further).

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After many years of chasing a silver bullet obsessively for high FPS, I simply shut down my FPS counter and use reasonable settings. My fps range is between 20-60 but the whole range is perfectly flyable. I get some stuttering in heavy cloud, but I've learned to live with that.

 

Don't obsess too much about FPS. It diminishes your enjoyment of simming tremendously

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Like you, I also have a G-Sync monitor. And I'd highly suggest you don't use neither Vsync nor Triple Buffering as that will just gobble up performance in most cases. Triple Buffering readies another frame in advance, to 'steady' the framerate / decrease tearing and juddering. With G-sync, you have the golden egg for getting rid of all that with zero performance hit. Then you also want to turn on "Enable G-sync for windowed and full screen mode" as P3D does not run exclusive fullscreen.

 

Personally, I wouldn't use any of those AF / FFTF tweaks either. I've found them to do more harm than good after version 3, despite what all the tests online might say. So I'd try and delete that .cfg and let the game recreate a fresh one.

 

Look into Process Lasso: https://bitsum.com/ - You can set per-application power profiles, priority etc. and it has its own power profile that also unparks cores. Though I wouldn't suggest increasing the applications process priority, that can sometimes lead to decreased performance for some reason I've found. 

 

Per Rob's settings, I'd turn down shadow quality, as that can be quite a hog and ESPECIALLY the Scenery Objects. Scenery in this game is incredible performance intensive and putting everything on Extremely Dense would bring most computers to their knees, unless you do bush flying where you'll on average render 3 huts and a bog. 

 

Personally I use FXAA + 4 x MSAA for AA. 8 x MSAA is also very intensive. P3D's FXAA implementation is excellent as it doesn't introduce much blur and cleans up the image really well. If you do find it adds too much blur, I suggest using a ReShade to add some Lumasharpen. I personally see no reason to use sparse grid supersampling, as many do. It's a complete performance hog.

 

Lastly, download something like RivaTuner Statstics Server. It has a per-profile framerate limiter. Set Vsync off, Triple Buffering off, Target Frame rate to Unlimited, G-sync to Windowed + Fullscreen and then cap with RTSS. 45-50FPS feels very smooth with G-sync enabled.

 

These are just my personal tweaks / findings. Some may disagree with a few of them but it's worth a look :) I can happily sit in my Dash 8 with 40-45FPS in a FlyTampa airport (EKCH).

 

Oh last thing. Maybe look into disabling HT unless you use it regularly. There's quite a few reports that it reduces performance slightly and increases VAS usage.

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I have almost the same spec as you, fly vfr only and maintain good quality and frame rates. Don't use NI or NCP. At the moment using ftx Australia and ftx so cal.

Last night did a flight out of Sydney, with ASN 5 , at the time I thought how good this flight simulator is and how much its improved over the last few months.

Re your NI settings did you notice Rob ' notes above .

 

bob

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This gives an honest view of the average performance I get with P3D v3. I never show, or even, know what my FPS is, all I seek is smoothness. Apart from all the usual i.e. REX4 & SC, ASN, UT2 with 2015 schedules, Opus FSI (only for DHM and Cams) Orbx Norway etc, I also use Aivlasoft EFB and ProATC X. All run on a single system (Specs under vid on YT) except for the EFB Display module, whch I run on my second machine. Start vid @ 36mins in.

 

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Per Rob's settings, I'd turn down shadow quality, as that can be quite a hog and ESPECIALLY the Scenery Objects.

 

You are right, I forgot this. I have the Shadow Quality slider only on medium already. No need for "ultra" in my case.

 

 

 


I personally see no reason to use sparse grid supersampling, as many do. It's a complete performance hog.

 

It is a performance hog, but in my case only because of the clouds (although both LM and REX developers always claim that they solved the performance issues of clouds and SGSSAA). However, I can not stand the shimmering issue of many of my AI traffic textures without SGSSAA, and no, FXAA does not eliminate this. So, I have to use SGSSAA it seems...

 

 

 

Set Vsync off, Triple Buffering off, Target Frame rate to Unlimited, G-sync to Windowed + Fullscreen and then cap with RTSS. 45-50FPS feels very smooth with G-sync enabled.

 

As mentioned, I can not use "target frame rate unlimited" as I instantly get blurries like this. And, I can not use my G-Sync as I have my FPS capped at 30 and anyway in most cases dont reach above 30FPS. Simply turning down the settings so far that I can use the G-Sync is no option at the moment, maybe I have to change my mind regarding this.

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As mentioned, I can not use "target frame rate unlimited" as I instantly get blurries like this. And, I can not use my G-Sync as I have my FPS capped at 30 and anyway in most cases dont reach above 30FPS. Simply turning down the settings so far that I can use the G-Sync is no option at the moment, maybe I have to change my mind regarding this.

 

Have you tried turning off HT, creating a new CFG without all those FFTF / AM entries, then running unlimited? See if that introduces blurries. 

 

Using the internal frame rate limiter also adds pre-rendered frames, which takes a HUGE performance hit at times. I can sit in my Dash 8 with 50FPS, enable the internal limiter to 50FPS and my FPS will drop like a rock, down to sub-30. I generally advise against using it. 

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Best decision I ever made was turning off the FPS counter. As long as it is smooth, who cares. 

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Have you tried turning off HT, creating a new CFG without all those FFTF / AM entries, then running unlimited? See if that introduces blurries. 

 

Using the internal frame rate limiter also adds pre-rendered frames, which takes a HUGE performance hit at times. I can sit in my Dash 8 with 50FPS, enable the internal limiter to 50FPS and my FPS will drop like a rock, down to sub-30. I generally advise against using it. 

 

I will not turn off HT as I use it for everything else I am doing with the same computer. To cumbersome to switch this only for P3D. Besides that, there are many reports that the sim behaves almost equally comparing HT off or a proper affinity mask setting (here on avsim). And I do not see such an impact on my FPS. On a heavy airport, I maybe get a max. of 10% more FPS when running unlimited at the cost of the blurries I mentioned. A new cfg. is also not needed, as I have ONLY the AF tweak in now, I already tested several times how my P3D reacts with different AF settings and no AF setting at all, and I can say that AF=85 is definitely the best thing to do on my build. BUT: I never tried with AF and unlimited FPS, I will try this again the next time.

 

But, as I stated in my above post, the fact is that all those tweaks will never provide me suddenly 100% more FPS on a heavy airport using a demanding addon aircraft along with cloudy conditions. It is simply impossible, that's the main message of this thread.

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Honestly there is often also a big differents sitting in an airport with 30FPS vs an approach to the same airport.

 

I am fiddling with my NGX 4K@30HZ locked at the moment . So far "sitting" with Vsync gives me 30FPS, but always tricky (airports has different perfomance hit (read:demanding)

 

I will accept a config for IFR and VFR for now

 

Almost same hardware as you btw. HT is on but i might try out this to off again. 

 

 

But just for the record . 4K/30HZ/30FPS Vsync ON - unlimited FPS - tripple buffer ,  is the most smoooth flight experience so far on any platform i have experienced

 

Michael Moe

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Have you tried turning off HT, creating a new CFG without all those FFTF / AM entries, then running unlimited?

 

I was recommending the same. I use a non-tweaked prepar3d.cfg and can maintain >30 also in heavy environments. I do only use cloud shadows though and no graphics slider is at the most right position!

 

I will not turn off HT as I use it for everything else I am doing with the same computer. To cumbersome to switch this only for P3D. Besides that, there are many reports that the sim behaves almost equally comparing HT off or a proper affinity mask setting (here on avsim). And I do not see such an impact on my FPS. On a heavy airport, I maybe get a max. of 10% more FPS when running unlimited at the cost of the blurries I mentioned. A new cfg. is also not needed, as I have ONLY the AF tweak in now, I already tested several times how my P3D reacts with different AF settings and no AF setting at all, and I can say that AF=85 is definitely the best thing to do on my build. BUT: I never tried with AF and unlimited FPS, I will try this again the next time.

 

But, as I stated in my above post, the fact is that all those tweaks will never provide me suddenly 100% more FPS on a heavy airport using a demanding addon aircraft along with cloudy conditions. It is simply impossible, that's the main message of this thread.

 Well, obviously your system must suffer for one reason, otherwise you would get the same results as other people. Personally, I would optimize the PC for P3D. If you have other priorities, then you have to live with it.

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Well, obviously your system must suffer for one reason, otherwise you would get the same results as other people. Personally, I would optimize the PC for P3D. If you have other priorities, then you have to live with it.

 

Hmm, sorry to say but I think you did not get the point of this topic... the "get the same results as other people" is the culprit here, that's what I am always talking about. You never get the same "as other people" as long as you not put all the sliders and checkboxes to exactly the same and most people do not provide the relevant information to do so. Similar as you, you say that you get more than 30FPS in most heavy environments and then you add the absolutely diffuse addition "I only use cloud shadows though and no graphics slider is at the most right position". Of course, if I set up my P3D according to this super precise information, I will also have more than 30FPS... you know what I mean? You at least give SOME information, most people do not even give that much...

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See, what I do for best performance in P3D is put the FPS limiter to unlimited. Keeping it on has such a big performance hit it isn't ideal IMO. I simply limit the sim to 30fps using Nvidia Inspector. No blurries while getting the consistently high performance of P3D when it's framerate limiter is at unlimited. Even on my potato computer, I can maintain 27-30fps even at big airports with bad weather generated by ASN.

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See, what I do for best performance in P3D is put the FPS limiter to unlimited. Keeping it on has such a big performance hit it isn't ideal IMO. I simply limit the sim to 30fps using Nvidia Inspector. No blurries while getting the consistently high performance of P3D when it's framerate limiter is at unlimited. Even on my potato computer, I can maintain 27-30fps even at big airports with bad weather generated by ASN.

 

You should consider something other than NVI to cap your framerate. Nvidia's implementation of the framerate limiter is very poor, tends to use up excess CPU cycles. Just a suggestion :)

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Ankh, I have the same CPU, overclock, and RAM speed as you. Differences are I have a 780gtx, 8 gb Ram, HT off, and a 3960 x 1024 triple monitor setup. My performance is similar to what you are experiencing. I run at 30 FPS locked in the sim as this is the smoothest for me, I just need to adjust sliders to keep it above 30 FPS locked. As Sethos stated, if I run unlimited FPS my FPS is higher, but not as smooth. The single largest framerate killer for me is AI traffic. Next is complex aircraft cockpits. After that is heavy weather, scenery and autogen density. I do not use NI or SGSSAA and just put up with the shimmering. After awhile I get used to it.....until I go back and take a flight in FSX with DX9. I adjust the scenery density and traffic levels to depending on the weather and aircraft I am flying. Fortunately, the more clouds you have the less you notice turning down the scenery density and traffic until you arrive at the terminal.

 

Reducing my sim window to one monitor gives me a good boost in FPS. However I prefer to reduce the graphic detail than loose my peripheral vision.

 

Do to the heavy performance hit of ORBX scenery and complex aircraft I keep them separate. I run my GA aircraft and ORBX in P3dv2. I use P3Dv3 for complex aircraft with GEP3D/UTX.

 

One last thing. If I load the default baron and put all of my sliders to minimum my FPS goes to 300. So unless those posting unbelievable high performance post all of their settings, I would take it with a grain of salt.

 

Ted

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Have you tried DSR? I run 2x DSR and then 2x Supersampling in NVI. I don't see any shimmering.

 

Unlike you, unlimited yields the best experience on my system. At least with my current results (I got 970 2 weeks ago)

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You should consider something other than NVI to cap your framerate. Nvidia's implementation of the framerate limiter is very poor, tends to use up excess CPU cycles. Just a suggestion :)

Not to hijack the thread, but I'd love a suggestion on the software as I'd like to do this. Thanks.

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Not to hijack the thread, but I'd love a suggestion on the software as I'd like to do this. Thanks.

 

The generally recommended one is RivaTuner Statistics Server. It also comes packaged with MSI Afterburner and EVGA Precision X. Works really well, small overhead and is free. Can be found here; http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/rtss-rivatuner-statistics-server-download.html - Let it start with Windows so you don't forget it, turn off the overlay features ('On-Screen Display Support') and then add a P3D profile, then put in the framerate you want.

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Hi AnkH,

 

I realised a very long time ago to take such claims with a very large pinch of salt. Not saying we are being deceived as I'm sure those claims are perfectly genuine. However, rarely are we comparing apples with apples as so much depends on what you fly, where you fly, the settings employed and hardware specs.

 

As you can see from the rig specs in my signature area I have a pretty potent build by todays standards. I choose to run with moderately high sim settings and I do use 4xSGSSAA in Nvidia Inspector. Most of the time performance is very good indeed, but still there are times when it can be a struggle to maintain frame rates >30.

 

Unless each frame rate and performance claim is backed up with a full set of parameters then I would regard that claim as being irrelevant to me. In the end you have to be prepared to experiment and find an acceptable balance which is in keeping with the capabilities of your hardware and also covers your requirements, most of the time, as you move between flight situations.

 

As an example, currently I am running some tests by visiting a multitude of airports/airstrips in the amazing Scotflight for Orbx product. I chose to fly around in the default Alabeo Extra as it offers both speed and agility. I have been using a mouse as my flight controller. Performance throughout has been outstanding with rare evidence of any stuttering and frame rates are generally maintained between 40-50, sometimes higher. However, these figures can drop significantly while flying in a very detailed area like Glasgow. Fortunately I can stll keep fairly close to 30fps and so smoothness of frame updating is maintained. It should be said that I run Unlimited with VSync On and my monitor is refreshing at 120Hz.

 

Providing more details would likely be unhelpful as our setups are different but, hopefully, you get the idea.

 

Regards,

Mike

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Very interesting forum topic as I'm looking into switching to P3D v3.3 My current specs are very close to the OP as well. I've heard the P3D takes better advantage of the capability of the GPU so will be looking into upgrading that.Will have to re check the specs on my Z77 board to see if GPU upgrade even makes sense. Not ready to jump into a new build though. As has been stated endless tweaking and configuring has caused me to walk away from the sim at times stretching back over 15 years. 20 FPS is my goal with 30 being ideal. Don't know if it's even possible to maintain 30 FPS on short final into EGGL in PMDG aircraft in an AS generated thunderstorm with ORBX, Ultimate Traffic etc. with all the sliders maxed on any system. You would probably get an OOM before you even had a chance to check the FPS counter. Would love to see it though. Regards.

 

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The generally recommended one is RivaTuner Statistics Server. It also comes packaged with MSI Afterburner and EVGA Precision X. Works really well, small overhead and is free. Can be found here; http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/rtss-rivatuner-statistics-server-download.html - Let it start with Windows so you don't forget it, turn off the overlay features ('On-Screen Display Support') and then add a P3D profile, then put in the framerate you want.

 

I have just returned to flight simming after a long break. 

 

This suggestion is great except for one problem I have encountered. If you use a second monitor and undock and drag items (such as your GPS) to the second monitor you will half your frame rates. 

 

For me I use unlimited frame rates in Prepar3d and no frame rate limiter. I get stutters from time to time but I can deal with that more than a 50% frame rate drop. 

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I have just returned to flight simming after a long break. 

 

This suggestion is great except for one problem I have encountered. If you use a second monitor and undock and drag items (such as your GPS) to the second monitor you will half your frame rates. 

 

For me I use unlimited frame rates in Prepar3d and no frame rate limiter. I get stutters from time to time but I can deal with that more than a 50% frame rate drop. 

 

That's a shame. I don't use that function myself, so I wasn't aware. Thank you for the heads-up, in case I recommend it in the future. 

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Well...perhaps, but perhaps not.

 

The number of threads over the last decade that report the true performance of this or that platform, when combined with certain settings and add-ons are legion. Over the next decade there will be hundreds, or even thousands more.

 

Being a bit of a techie nerd, I probably read them all. (Gag)! Even if I disagreed with many conclusions proclaimed there was seldom (if) any reason to question the integrity or honesty of anyone. I doubt that many were "showing off".

 

No matter how informed, most of us are subjective analysts at best, although we may think otherwise. Anyway interesting points made, and appreciate the viewpoint, but must respectfully disagree with the negative primary conclusion(s).

 

Kind regards,

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Bottom line - if you are using FPS as a gauge of your P3D performance - you will never be satisfied. As others have said - turn OFF the FPS counter and tune your system for smooth operation. I have always had my system(s) maxed at 20 and have never looked back.

 

Either you want to enjoy your sim or you want bragging points - you have to decide.

 

 

Vic

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I have a very similar system as well but with the 3570k @ 4.6ghz (non-HT processor.) I get very similar numbers. The fact with FSX and P3D is you need an absolute bleeding edge CPU when it comes to trying to keep frame rate up at major hub airports. Although P3D generally does a lot more GPU work than FSX, it's still hobbled by intense CPU demand in those areas.

 

Ultimately like vgbaron said above, you just have to cope with it with the FPS counter turned off and focus on procedures, flying and enjoyment ;)

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