Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Skywolf

VR is the thing you want - Monitors is so last century

Recommended Posts

OR CV1 is the no1 best thing that has ever happened to Flight Simulation. I realise though that's it's not for everyone. But I love it.


Keith Sandford.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Things moving pretty quickly.......

 

 

ipacs aerofly [developer]

[Official] Preliminary VIVE controller support

Dear Aerofly users,

We have just published a new update in our Beta channel that adds preliminary support for VIVE controllers to Aerofly. Using the VIVE controllers you may now navigate the Aerofly menus and you can also interact with some airplane cockpit instruments.

We would love to hear your feedback regarding this new feature.

We will of course add support for Oculus touch controllers once we can test them ourselves.

 

 


We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i5 13600K @ 5.1GHz / G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series Ram 32GB / GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 4070 Ti GAMING OC 12G Graphics Card / Sound Blaster Z / Meta Quest 2 VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 1x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 2x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB /  1x Samsung - 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe /  1x Samsung 980 NVMe 1TB / 2 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity / Windows 11 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX Motherboard LGA 1700 DDR5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

<p>The absolute best use of VR right now is from a passenger or PNF perspective. This is why a great recorder and playback function is very useful. Fly the flight as per normal, recording it and then play it back and ride along in the right hand seat without having to interact with anything. The experience is amazing.<br />

<br />

Interactivity in the VC is still too clunky to be of much immersive benefit.  But I agree the experience is amazing</p>

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Late to the thread but having tried the Vive and the latest Rift CV1 in both FSX (with Flyinside) and DCS I'm sticking with my monitor. The 3D effect is amazing when you first try it but the WOW! factor soon wore off for me when I realised the limitations. As plenty of people have said, the physical resolution is poor. Flyinside allows you to zoom in to the instruments (losing some immersion) but I found it very difficult, if not impossible at times, to fly accurately on instruments without continuously zooming in and out. If you have charts/maps on a second monitor or tablet you obviously can't use them with the headset on. If you have physical switch panels in your home cockpit you can't use them either without fumbling about or tilting you head back to try and look through the small gap around your nose. The Vive had Leap Motion so I was able to operate some switches in the virtual cockpit but it was a little hit and miss (literally). I suppose it all boils down to what you want. If you're looking for a great visual/immersive experience, then VR's great. If you actually want to operate a complex aircraft properly then I personally think this generation of VR is currently just not up to it (even with Flyinside) - the resolution needs to be at least twice what it is at present and that's going to take massive processing power to achieve the sort of frame rates you'd need.

For me, however, the biggest problem was that I started to feel sick after I'd been using it for a while (not uncommon, apparently) particularly when manoeuvring more aggressively. And for those (including the manufacturers) who say that it's down to frame rates, I disagree. Having worked for some years in a full-sized sim complex, the biggest cause of nausea, particularly in fixed-base sims with no motion, is the fact that your inner ear is telling you one thing (that your body isn't moving) and your eyes are telling you another (that it is). The effect reduces the more you're exposed to the environment but never actually goes completely for some people. I want to enjoy my sim experience without feeling unwell so VR is probably not for me.


 i7-6700k | Asus Maximus VIII Hero | 16GB RAM | MSI GTX 1080 Gaming X Plus | Samsung Evo 500GB & 1TB | WD Blue 2 x 1TB | EVGA Supernova G2 850W | AOC 2560x1440 monitor | Win 10 Pro 64-bit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Raven9000

<p>The absolute best use of VR right now is from a passenger or PNF perspective. This is why a great recorder and playback function is very useful. Fly the flight as per normal, recording it and then play it back and ride along in the right hand seat without having to interact with anything. The experience is amazing.<br />

<br />

Interactivity in the VC is still too clunky to be of much immersive benefit.  But I agree the experience is amazing</p>

Did you try leap motion?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me, however, the biggest problem was that I started to feel sick after I'd been using it for a while (not uncommon, apparently) particularly when manoeuvring more aggressively. And for those (including the manufacturers) who say that it's down to frame rates, I disagree. Having worked for some years in a full-sized sim complex, the biggest cause of nausea, particularly in fixed-base sims with no motion, is the fact that your inner ear is telling you one thing (that your body isn't moving) and your eyes are telling you another (that it is). The effect reduces the more you're exposed to the environment but never actually goes completely for some people. I want to enjoy my sim experience without feeling unwell so VR is probably not for me.

 

I tried a VR demo back in the early 90s, and I've never forgotten the nausea it gave me after about 15 seconds. Doubtless things have improved since, but combined with the other limitations listed, I just don't fancy it. Besides, I tend to mentally tune external stimuli out enough that I feel like I'm in the cockpit anyway. For my own point of view, VR is the solution to a problem I don't have. 


 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have had an htc vive since july, and i have been flying vr in p3d since about then using flyinside. I dont need to tell you about the lower resolution - you all know about that. What several people have been trying to convey (my self included) is how revolutionairy this new vr medium is. You are actually INSIDE the cockpit, flying like the real thing. 

 

A few things flying in vr from my experience:

  • A good program to controll views is essential (like opus fsi). 
  • My razer naga gaming mouse is great for assigning up to 12 or more views, but i usually only use a few. Among them is a better viewpoint for the fmc and another for getting up close to the pfd (qnh settings etc are so damned small)
  • I would love for htc vive or flyinside to let me use the front camera by an easy click of a button when i need to write things down or check something in real life. Flying on vatsim or similar will probably force you out of your hmd sometimes, which is a shame because the front facing camera is pretty good, but not really fully realized if you ask me. I dont know about you guys, but i need to take notes when getting my ifr clearances ;)
  • I do take my hmd off during cruise most of the time, but i just place it on my desk facing such a way that i see my pfd and nav display on my screen. That way i can monitor the flight even if im ooc ;)
  • I miss a way to controll the size of the various airport lights. They get way too big in vr, and because of it, i prefer flying during daylight hours when flying in vr.
  • I have bought xp11, but i havent bought fi for xp yet. I did try the fi xp demo though. At this point, fi for p3d seems like a more fleshed out version that is more stabile as well. I did like the night lighting on the airport muuuch better in xp with fi, but the moon was taking up half the atmosphere hehe. Im sure i will buy fi for xp sooner or later (probably sooner rather then later if i know myself right).
  • Im not sure people actually appreciate how great vr suits p3d. From my perspective p3d with fi is THE best vr application available on the market. I have bought and tried plenty of games made for vr since i got my vive, but not a single one of those specially made vr games can hold a candle to p3d in vr. And i thank my lucky stars because prepar3d was not made for vr, yet it singlehandedly justifies the rather expensive purchase of my vive.
  • Our local military academy are now contemplating how to implement vr for their flight school :)
  • Some people talk about nausea. I can totally understand where you are coming from. My husband almost threw up using the vive on a ga test flight. When you bank the airplane you get a physical sensation of it in your stomach. The first few ttimes it is almost like the sensation going down from the peak on a rollercoaster ride. For me all i can say is that i got used to it pretty quickly. If you dont get nausea on the real planes, i guess there is a pretty good chance you will not in the vive. Not guaranteed though, since your inner ear and your visual ques will not match up. People are different.

Andreas Stangenes

http://www.youtube.com/user/krsans78
Add me on gamertag: Bullhorns78

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been away for a couple of pages it seems.

 

OK. Regarding the larger airliners. 

 

1. You do know they are not meant to be operated by one person? Switches and peripheral issues can be largely overcome with FS2Crew installed. I don't operate the flaps and gear when I'm flying...I ask the other guy to do it!

 

2. Nausia. It gets better!

 

3. Resolution. It is important to have your eyes in the right place. I found the Vive was slightly less critical when I tried one, but the CV1 certainly rewards accurate placement and optics.

 

4. Asynchronous Timewarp/Spacewarp. All hail! 45 FPS is attainable by most!

 

5. The current hardware is just awesome. It has a lot of improvement still in the kit to come so waiting is just missing out.

 

I'm tempted by the Touch controllers. Steam sees them as Vive controllers and everything works nicely. The Tested review rates them as more natural and better than the Vive controllers but the Roomscale needs three sensors and is still Beta.

 

Not needed for Simming though. FS2Crew and Leap Motion do all I need. For DCS, the HOTAS is the way ahead.

 

Enjoy!


Mark Harris.

Aged 54. 

P3D,  & DCS mostly. DofReality P6 platform partially customised and waiting for parts. Brunner CLS-E Yoke and Pedals. Winwing HOTAS and Cougar MFDS.

Scan 3XS Laptop i9-9900K 3.6ghz, 64GB DDR4, RTX2080.

B737NG Pilot. Ex Q400, BAe146, ATP and Flying Instructor in the dim and distant past! SEP renewed and back at the coal face flying folk on the much deserved holidays!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have P3D, only FSX. It has a long way to go but is last time I did use it there was potential. I still haven't experimented with it enough to give a full report. I'm still learning how to use my hands to get what I want!

 

Sorry. LM isn't expensive, and the biggest problem is the installation of the mount and having yet another long USB cable draped around the room... 

 

I do feel that if we are sticking to hardware for main controls, then Touch controllers are a non starter. The alternative is either gloves or LM developed further. The development is the software and implementation. So the actual kit is not likely to need changing anytime soon.

 

Worth getting IMHO as they'll only get better as time goes on. 


Mark Harris.

Aged 54. 

P3D,  & DCS mostly. DofReality P6 platform partially customised and waiting for parts. Brunner CLS-E Yoke and Pedals. Winwing HOTAS and Cougar MFDS.

Scan 3XS Laptop i9-9900K 3.6ghz, 64GB DDR4, RTX2080.

B737NG Pilot. Ex Q400, BAe146, ATP and Flying Instructor in the dim and distant past! SEP renewed and back at the coal face flying folk on the much deserved holidays!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm apparently a mutant. After the first touch of nausea, I adjusted and now actually enjoy twisting around wildly in VR. Its FUN!! I have no issues being in there for a few hours. (well, besides sweaty forehead syndrome)


We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i5 13600K @ 5.1GHz / G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series Ram 32GB / GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 4070 Ti GAMING OC 12G Graphics Card / Sound Blaster Z / Meta Quest 2 VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 1x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 2x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB /  1x Samsung - 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe /  1x Samsung 980 NVMe 1TB / 2 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity / Windows 11 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX Motherboard LGA 1700 DDR5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For many folks, like me, much of the flight sim bubble lies outside of what goes up on the (primary) monitor...for me that includes my yoke, throttle quad, kneepad, iPad with CDU, iPad with approach plates, and the side PC that runs weather, ATC, AI traffic management, and moving map.  So restricting myself to the view in a pair of VR goggles might be more immersive in one facet of the simming experience, but much less so elsewhere.  I need to see/use my hands, and I need access to all the other stuff I have that goes into the process.  So for me, a massive display system, e.g. one or more large 4K monitors, answers that mail better than anything I could do on goggles.

 

Perhaps for some kinds of flying--a fighter with HOTAS for example--it might make more sense.  But all the technical limitations associated with the current generation of VR goggles aside, I don't see how to bridge a strictly in-the-headset VR world with the other necessary elements of the physical environment I operate in.

 

Regards

 

This is the way that I feel about this VR also, at least right now.  I am tempted to by the Oculus Rift and Leap motion, which sounds like a good combination.  But I also love the feel of hardware in my hands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course, part of it is going to be what you get out of VR. If Flight simming is your only interest in the technology, then yes, it might not be the right time to make the jump, as the only Sim platforms that make really great use of it right now IMHO are DCS and Aerofly FS2.

 

But!

 

If you're also a gamer, then the options open up quickly with things like Elite Dangerous or the no-up, no-down, total spinning madness of Eve Valkrie (NOT for the nausea prone!) or any of a range of other choices. At that point, VR  becomes much more Interesting.


We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i5 13600K @ 5.1GHz / G.SKILL Trident Z5 RGB Series Ram 32GB / GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 4070 Ti GAMING OC 12G Graphics Card / Sound Blaster Z / Meta Quest 2 VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 1x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / 2x Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB /  1x Samsung - 970 EVO Plus 2TB NVMe /  1x Samsung 980 NVMe 1TB / 2 other regular hd's with up to 10 terabyte capacity / Windows 11 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite AX Motherboard LGA 1700 DDR5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The vive has an onboard usb port, but im not getting a clear picture of its stability in use when i google it. If it works good then it sounds like the vive has a leg up on the rift in regards to leap motion.

The DK2 also had this USB port, but the bandwidth was not good enough to use for anything other than speakers. I suspect the Vive one is about as useful...


Mark Harris.

Aged 54. 

P3D,  & DCS mostly. DofReality P6 platform partially customised and waiting for parts. Brunner CLS-E Yoke and Pedals. Winwing HOTAS and Cougar MFDS.

Scan 3XS Laptop i9-9900K 3.6ghz, 64GB DDR4, RTX2080.

B737NG Pilot. Ex Q400, BAe146, ATP and Flying Instructor in the dim and distant past! SEP renewed and back at the coal face flying folk on the much deserved holidays!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
×
×
  • Create New...