I wouldn't blame them, it's going to really complicate the beta process if addons start being released to modify a specific beta and users leave it installed when they upgrade which is very easy to do (and forget you even have it in the first place). It would make sense to leave them locked down until it hits stable.

 

Valid point.

Additionally much of the information gleaned from successful beta tester mods can be used by LR to finalise XP11.

Jay

No one is saying that they can't or shouldn't test the car to the limit. On the contrary, that's just how flaws (bugs) are more easily discovered!

 

The problem is that the car is little more than a prototype and will be subject for a few months to significant and constant re-designs by its manufacturer to improve its features and remedy to its flaws.

 

If during this limited phase a lot of customers begin doing the publicly shared self-made modifications to their cars, this will only make the life much harder for the manufacturer of the car, increase their workload, delay the discovery and feedback of issues, etc. :smile:

Perhaps the useful tweaks posted here could be submitted to LR.

Jay

Guys stay calm.  :smile:

Each simmer always customizes his simulator, it's normal, the simmer is "curious".

 

Example: install Skymaxx Pro 3.x (not full compatible) on XP11 beta version, what it is?

It's conducting experiment on a beta version, it's tweaking incomplete simulator, is curiosity.

 

Install alternative sky textures (aerosoft sky tools, ventura sky, etc).... or alternative scenery... or alternative aircraft... or alternative plugins... on XP11 beta version, what it is?

It's conducting experiment on a beta version, it's tweaking incomplete simulator, is curiosity.

 

Change clouds color (from gray to white), or decrease haze, or increase rayleigh effect, it's the same thing.

It's conducting experiment on a beta version, it's tweaking incomplete simulator, is curiosity.
There is no difference.

 

Guys remember, conducting experiment, or testing, or tweaking on a simulator (incomplete or complete) is not obligatory!!  :wink:

These experiments with art controls have also been made with XP10!

This is nothing new, and it's not the first time.

 

Everyone is free to make their own choice.

 

Guys stay calm.  :smile:

Each simmer always customizes his simulator, it's normal, the simmer is "curious".

 

Example: install Skymaxx Pro 3.x (not full compatible) on XP11 beta version, what it is?

It's conducting experiment on a beta version, it's tweaking incomplete simulator, is curiosity.

 

Install alternative sky textures (aerosoft sky tools, ventura sky, etc).... or alternative scenery... or alternative aircraft... or alternative plugins... on XP11 beta version, what it is?

It's conducting experiment on a beta version, it's tweaking incomplete simulator, is curiosity.

 

Change clouds color (from gray to white), or decrease haze, or increase rayleigh effect, it's the same thing.

It's conducting experiment on a beta version, it's tweaking incomplete simulator, is curiosity.

There is no difference.

 

Guys remember, conducting experiment, or testing, or tweaking on a simulator (incomplete or complete) is not obligatory!!  :wink:

These experiments with art controls have also been made with XP10!

This is nothing new, and it's not the first time.

 

Everyone is free to make their own choice.

 

All I can say..is again THANK YOU...the over-zealous atmospheric haze and fog, (IMPO) was killing my enjoyment of XP11, quite frankly.  Your findings and mods as a .lua script, took care of it for me, until Laminar delivers (if they in fact...do...) a G.U.I. in the final RTM that allows the user to make his or her personal choices...  Until then...thank goodness you posted!  That's all I can say!

 

Guys stay calm.  :smile:

Each simmer always customizes his simulator, it's normal, the simmer is "curious".

 

Example: install Skymaxx Pro 3.x (not full compatible) on XP11 beta version, what it is?

It's conducting experiment on a beta version, it's tweaking incomplete simulator, is curiosity.

 

Install alternative sky textures (aerosoft sky tools, ventura sky, etc).... or alternative scenery... or alternative aircraft... or alternative plugins... on XP11 beta version, what it is?

It's conducting experiment on a beta version, it's tweaking incomplete simulator, is curiosity.

 

Change clouds color (from gray to white), or decrease haze, or increase rayleigh effect, it's the same thing.

It's conducting experiment on a beta version, it's tweaking incomplete simulator, is curiosity.

There is no difference.

 

Guys remember, conducting experiment, or testing, or tweaking on a simulator (incomplete or complete) is not obligatory!!  :wink:

These experiments with art controls have also been made with XP10!

This is nothing new, and it's not the first time.

 

Everyone is free to make their own choice.

 

 

The situation is different from the similar tweaks that were done in a mature XP10. In this case we're talking about the first public beta of X-Plane 11. This is the time when Laminar will receive the max amount of feedback on bugs and improvements. And the more people use "unofficial" tweaks, the more the general feedback that is given to Laminar degrades.

 

Of course everyone is free to experiment on their own. I just think it would be better if, in this temporally limited phase, the tweaks don't become too widespread, for the above mentioned reasons.

 

I would like to remember that even Ben Supnik himself has said in one of these threads to wait some weeks before doing these kind of experiments.

All I can say..is again THANK YOU...the over-zealous atmospheric haze and fog, (IMPO) was killing my enjoyment of XP11, quite frankly.  Your findings and mods as a .lua script, took care of it for me, until Laminar delivers (if they in fact...do...) a G.U.I. in the final RTM that allows the user to make his or her personal choices...  Until then...thank goodness you posted!  That's all I can say!

+1

I'd have to agree it's probably best to hold off on the tweaks for now (although I'm itching to try them as well). Ben has, very respectfully asked that people hold off and there are very sound reasons for that which may effect the quality of the end product and our experience afterwards.

 

I understand people have the freedom to do what they want, but if there's a possibility that that choice negatively impacts the beta run, or the availability of the tweaks in the full version, it may be best to agree to limit your freedom slightly in the short term (at least by not publishing, ideally by not trying) to ensure continued freedoms in the long term.

 

どうぞよろしくお願い致します、which is Japanese.

I really don't see where the published tweaks can do anybody any wrong.  For one thing...nothing irrevocably alters anything.  The minute a new beta comes out, I merely remove my x.lua script to my Desktop. Install the new beta...and see what's up.  If the beta doesn't address my XP11 rendering concerns (mainly atmospheric as it stands with this first 'glimpse' Beta...), I only have to dump back in my x.lua script, and wait for the next beta----towards the final RTM.

 

So, I don't quite understand, what needs to be 'held off' if somebody like this clever fellow, found a way to give you some control of the haze and fog, as we wait out what Laminar will do, or not end up doing.

 

Respectfully,

I'll be tweaking till the cows come home!

 

Or, till the next beta lets me do something else ha!

I really don't see where the published tweaks can do anybody any wrong.

 

If tweaks become public and widespread in this early beta phase, it can do wrong in two ways at least:

 

1) Statistically, the more people use them, the more people will report bugs while having tweaks enabled. This makes it more difficult for those at Laminar to resolve bugs, and increases their workload, because these sorts of undocumented tweaks can easily interfere in the bug reporting workflow, especially in a situation in which X-Plane will undergo a period of rapidly changing Betas.

 

2) The more people use them, the less people report or give feedback about the things that don't work or have to be improved in X-Plane. A tweak is almost always a less than ideal solution (for various reasons) than if the same improvement would have been implemented by the developers themselves.

 

Of course there's nothing wrong in using tweaks per se, but having them become widespread and public in this limited early beta phase can cause these negative effects.

I don't know.  X plane sort of begs to be tweaked.  It's like Linux to me...  I played with that OS in college and it was mostly tinkering.  XP sometimes feels more complex to work with (which I like).

Tweaking is fine, but if we could limit the widely circulation of these undocumented tweaks for these first betas, as Ben himself has suggested, I think it would be a good thing. :smile:

I am going to resist the temptation to tweak, and enjoy it as is. P3D will be my daytime sim, and XP 11 will be my night time sim.

Doesn't the log file show these 'tweaks' happening? I'm not familiar enough with what happens when you perform these tweaks, but if the log file shows them taking place then LR has a way to detect them when bugs are reported (since logs are required for reporting bugs).

 

Perhaps someone who has done these tweaks could take a quick peek in the logs?