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Sesquashtoo

X-Aviation has seemed to retreat into forum 'run silent, run deep'...

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Since SMP4 came out...there was regular forum injection from Cameron and SunDog,..... then XEnviro up-take took off like a rocket, despite the price-hurdle, and it seems X-Aviation has taken her below the waves....

 

SMP is a great product, SunDog aggressively and generously updates it, as well as the price and update policies of X-Aviation.  All good crew.

 

I ran with SMP through 3 versions as my defacto weather engine.  I did first update to SMP4, but found no true feature-set to call it v4, and honestly stated.

 

I bit the bullet, and purchased XEnviro...and I will say, that their 'vision' best suits my 'vision' of what I would like to see in the sky, and for features, like auto tuning in real time, the sky colors and template of whatever atmospherics is called up for.  Cloud variation, etc...

 

I hope that both Cameron,and SunDog took note of the almost fanatical uptake of XEnviro, because of the visuals, and feature sets, it has...will have, and beyond.

 

I will cheer for the best version of any program that advances the tech...the 'view'...and my personal need's/met algorithm.

 

Completion is good...it advances the genre....

 

Cheers, Cameron, and SunDog ;)

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I was a very enthusiastic supporter of SMP from day one but after paying for upgrades through SMP3 + RWC (dubious as a separate product) and now getting bombarded with emails to pay for an upgrade to SMP4, I feel used and have zero loyalty for that product and developer now (still admire the developer's talent and devotion to Xplane).  I don't think SunDog has any appreciation that many people were just supporting the developer in the early days with an immature product that I tried out but never really used.  It is still a bit like that today although if starting now the full price of SMP4+RWC is fair.   And yes, Sesquashtoo, v4 should never have been a paid upgrade and now I am on to XEnviro.

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Those robber barrons! Well nothing could be further from the truth SES yes we are still working on V4 and nobody is hiding...When we are ready we will talk about it....

 

Sorry you feel the way you do, but that's ok I don't know what kind of input we could add to to this discussion to any benefit.....

 

Our efforts have been talked about and the V4 updates are listed on the product page, it's totally up to the consumer to decide...And many have decided on SMP and still do daily.....

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Completion is good...it advances the genre....

 

Not that important I guess since in 6 months will be all flying AFS2, won't we?

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My experience is that the guys at X-Aviation have been very responsive.  However, I have to agree, X-Enviro is a far superior product than SMP V3.  I can only compare to SMP V3 because I didn't fancy paying for yet another SMP upgrade, especially when many XP developers offer free upgrades for their products.  So, I will never know how X-Enviro stacks up to SMP V4 outside of YouTube comparison videos.

 

Funny, the price to upgrade SMP is less than X-Enviro but the X-Aviation guys made two mistakes (IMHO):

1. They let X-Enviro beat them to market when simmers were yearning for a better weather engine (I have a feeling, like myself, many were existing SMP clients).

2. They over estimated customer loyalty in their product, which happens all the time.

 

Nonetheless, their timing was off and, it seems like, they were trying to grab market share while XP11 Beta is hot.  Probably would have been better suited to step back, wait for official XP11 to be released.  In the meantime, optimize their product and think better about "hit" price point.  Additionally, once XP11 full is released, there will probably be a number of developers asking for $ for upgraded, XP11 compatible products.  Then they wouldn't be outside the norm with an upgrade fee for SMP V4.  Simmers will spend their $$$ as long as they don't feel like they are being taken advantage of while they pursue their hobby.

 

Getting Marketing 101 flashbacks... 

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I'm not sure what the premise is with the OP's post. SkyMaxx Pro hasn't been "taken below the waters" by XEnviro, in my view. 

 

I've been testing both. Yes, I'll agree that there probably isn't enough "new Wow!" in SkyMaxx v4 to justify the version number, but there were some incremental improvements in many areas. I do think they have to step up their game a little, but it's still a unique product and competitive with XEnviro in many respects.

 

For me the big advantage with SkyMaxx is having a weather briefing via the XP menu so I know what the injected winds are, and being able to fully adjust the injected weather or set up weather from scratch. I also like having accurate sync with airport ATIS on the XP map. Right now, SkyMaxx Pro is also doing a better job than XEnviro of interpolating weather and avoiding sudden drastic changes in flight.

 

I like the look of XEnviro about half the time. I like the feeling of different weather and constant change. There is more color variety in the sky. However, I'm also seeing a lot of very bad glitching like sudden changes of weather from low viz to CAVOK. Or the reverse, which is tons of fun on VFR short final. The injected weather is sometimes way off from the current METAR. Several times I've had a weird, abrupt transition from a layer of rainfall to clear skies above. Haze layers end too sharply against the edges of mountains.

 

When XEnviro isn't looking so great, it has a very unpolished, early access feel. At least until you get up to high altitude where it always looks very nice. Which is why I understand the buzz XEnviro is getting with primarily tubeliner sim pilots. Most of the weird stuff I'm seeing is at low level, and you'll zoom right out of the "glitch zone" if you're headed for the flight levels. For low level VFR flying though, it's a bit messy.

 

So for me it's still a toss-up. I'm thinking of going back to SkyMaxx Pro v4+RWC for a while, so the XEnviro crew can spend some time cleaning up these display bugs and server issues. Then I'll re-evaluate between the two.

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Those robber barrons! Well nothing could be further from the truth SES yes we are still working on V4 and nobody is hiding...When we are ready we will talk about it....

 

Sorry you feel the way you do, but that's ok I don't know what kind of input we could add to to this discussion to any benefit.....

 

Our efforts have been talked about and the V4 updates are listed on the product page, it's totally up to the consumer to decide...And many have decided on SMP and still do daily.....

Good go!  Like I stated, you as the Dev, and X-Aviation have certainly stood by your product...have updated it without nickel and diming, and that was/is most appreciative. The issue that I had with even v4, was that always, the clouds surrounded you, even when set to as far a distance as your mask allowed.  In XEnviro, they have achieved that look, clouds at the horizon event, with 'spacial' differences, out to the horizon event, without even stressing the setting for it.  Perhaps 2D in this case, is the way, over volumetric?  Less performance hit, as well as the ability to create different cloud sprites for them?  I dunno...am not a developer, or coder.  

 

Didn't infer that you folks were hiding...but of late, have grown 'forum-quiet'....the both of you. So, good to read from you, that things are well, and are advancing on the SMP front.

 

I certainly intend to keep suporting X-Aviation, simply because I like the company's 'bed-side manner'.  The (Cameron) asking prices are fair, your service is excellent (for my experience), and perhaps, I can be wooed back to another version of SMP...and will...if it bests, my experience-to-date.  I would always change my bat, to better my chance of a home run! :)

 

Cheers, and continued success in the Market!

 

Mitch/Ses

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i have both and use both, both have advantages and disadvantages.

 

for me i also have experienced the server outages twice, for 10-20 minutes when there is no weather whatsoever and i would be lying if i was not annoyed bý it.  Cant wait what will happen when their hosting server has an outage and renders the software unusable.

 

SMP espeically in the mountains does look better, but xenviro does represent the status quo at FL300 and it is nothing but breathtaking. I guess i am pragmatic in that regard and just use whatever suits best in each situation

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Not that important I guess since in 6 months will be all flying AFS2, won't we?

Only if you wish to give up any or all of the other sims on your system, :)  

 

Not my intention...not at all...

I'm not sure what the premise is with the OP's post. SkyMaxx Pro hasn't been "taken below the waters" by XEnviro, in my view. 

 

I've been testing both. Yes, I'll agree that there probably isn't enough "new Wow!" in SkyMaxx v4 to justify the version number, but there were some incremental improvements in many areas. I do think they have to step up their game a little, but it's still a unique product and competitive with XEnviro in many respects.

 

For me the big advantage with SkyMaxx is having a weather briefing via the XP menu so I know what the injected winds are, and being able to fully adjust the injected weather or set up weather from scratch. I also like having accurate sync with airport ATIS on the XP map. Right now, SkyMaxx Pro is also doing a better job than XEnviro of interpolating weather and avoiding sudden drastic changes in flight.

 

I like the look of XEnviro about half the time. I like the feeling of different weather and constant change. There is more color variety in the sky. However, I'm also seeing a lot of very bad glitching like sudden changes of weather from low viz to CAVOK. Or the reverse, which is tons of fun on VFR short final. The injected weather is sometimes way off from the current METAR. Several times I've had a weird, abrupt transition from a layer of rainfall to clear skies above. Haze layers end too sharply against the edges of mountains.

 

When XEnviro isn't looking so great, it has a very unpolished, early access feel. At least until you get up to high altitude where it always looks very nice. Which is why I understand the buzz XEnviro is getting with primarily tubeliner sim pilots. Most of the weird stuff I'm seeing is at low level, and you'll zoom right out of the "glitch zone" if you're headed for the flight levels. For low level VFR flying though, it's a bit messy.

 

So for me it's still a toss-up. I'm thinking of going back to SkyMaxx Pro v4+RWC for a while, so the XEnviro crew can spend some time cleaning up these display bugs and server issues. Then I'll re-evaluate between the two.

I was forum-musing, that I felt they had grown quiet. That was the thrust of the post...wondering aloud, via my fingers upon the keys.

My experience is that the guys at X-Aviation have been very responsive.  However, I have to agree, X-Enviro is a far superior product than SMP V3.  I can only compare to SMP V3 because I didn't fancy paying for yet another SMP upgrade, especially when many XP developers offer free upgrades for their products.  So, I will never know how X-Enviro stacks up to SMP V4 outside of YouTube comparison videos.

 

Funny, the price to upgrade SMP is less than X-Enviro but the X-Aviation guys made two mistakes (IMHO):

1. They let X-Enviro beat them to market when simmers were yearning for a better weather engine (I have a feeling, like myself, many were existing SMP clients).

2. They over estimated customer loyalty in their product, which happens all the time.

 

Nonetheless, their timing was off and, it seems like, they were trying to grab market share while XP11 Beta is hot.  Probably would have been better suited to step back, wait for official XP11 to be released.  In the meantime, optimize their product and think better about "hit" price point.  Additionally, once XP11 full is released, there will probably be a number of developers asking for $ for upgraded, XP11 compatible products.  Then they wouldn't be outside the norm with an upgrade fee for SMP V4.  Simmers will spend their $$$ as long as they don't feel like they are being taken advantage of while they pursue their hobby.

 

Getting Marketing 101 flashbacks... 

I would agree with your point 1 and 2.  I quietly arrived at that feeling, myself.

 

I did upgrade, if only to show continuing support for a solid product, as well as expecting (as I decipher it, what it takes to call a product, a 'later' version, and expecting that). Having said that though, I, in my experience was disappointed with v4, and so payed that stiff price for XEnviro.  Once done though...it has given me everything I had on my want list.  It's a great product, but different in its approach to the established SMP franchise.  

 

That stated, I was truly wondering about X-Aviation, more than,  once more, a square off of both weather programs.  Cameron was most active at its launch, but sort of left the building after a lot of users were posting their uptake of XEnviro, and posting usage comments and screen grabs.  I wish him well...some great XP products have come outta that website. That was my personal 'take' on not seeing recent posts...

oh..I hate typing on a phone...'Completion', should have of course read, 'Competition'!  I imagine that everybody auto-corrected in their minds for me...:)

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I keep getting reminders about the discount I can get because of my previous purchase of v3, but I've held off, waiting to see if SMP v4 becomes at pace with or better than XEnviro, but so far, all I see is talk about XEnviro and pretty much quiet as a church from the SMP folks.  I still have time to get the upgrade, but I'm weary about putting out more cash for something that may be a disappointment.

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I upgraded to SMP4 and sprung for RWC during the XMAS holiday.  One week later bought xEnviro and not looking back.  I've been a supporter of SMP since Ver 2, but xEnviro is so much more of what I'm looking for in a weather engine.  I'm 50/50 tube driver/GA and XE hits the nail on the head in both environments.  Not perfect, but much closer than SMP has been.

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I was forum-musing, that I felt they had grown quiet.

 

I think this is perfectly normal when it comes to release cycles. You work on something, start talking about it more when it gets closer to completion... it gets released and you go back to working on it. 

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Since SMP4 came out...there was regular forum injection from Cameron and SunDog,..... then XEnviro up-take took off like a rocket, despite the price-hurdle, and it seems X-Aviation has taken her below the waves....

 

The truth is I don't really visit this forum. The only times I will is immediately after a release because people have a tendency to seek support in various forums they should not be. Additionally, I have no business responding to xEnviro threads, or even trying to "compete" with them.

 

 

 

Funny, the price to upgrade SMP is less than X-Enviro but the X-Aviation guys made two mistakes (IMHO):

1. They let X-Enviro beat them to market when simmers were yearning for a better weather engine (I have a feeling, like myself, many were existing SMP clients).

2. They over estimated customer loyalty in their product, which happens all the time.

 

I don't think we made any mistakes at all. SkyMaxx Pro v4 broke release day sales records for any product we've ever sold. Additionally, it continues to outpace daily sales and projections of any previous versions of SkyMaxx Pro.

 

 

 

Nonetheless, their timing was off and, it seems like, they were trying to grab market share while XP11 Beta is hot.

 

I don't buy into the whole "XP 11" increases our sales figures thing. A bunch of rubbish in my opinion, and had zero bearing as to our release timing or decisions.

 

 

 

Cameron was most active at its launch, but sort of left the building after a lot of users were posting their uptake of XEnviro, and posting usage comments and screen grabs.  I wish him well...some great XP products have come outta that website. That was my personal 'take' on not seeing recent posts...

 

Again, as I stated above. It's also been Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years in the span of release time. I greatly value time with my family during this time of year.

 

 

 

I think this is perfectly normal when it comes to release cycles. You work on something, start talking about it more when it gets closer to completion... it gets released and you go back to working on it.

 

Precisely!

 

 

All this said, xEnviro is what it is, and some people will like it, some people won't. The same goes for SkyMaxx Pro. Our product is used in the major corporate scene by the "big boys" of aviation, including NASA, Boeing, Air Force, etc, and they have very strict standards for training requirements. The flight simulation hobby market tends to have so many people wanting polar opposites of things that none of the reactions here surprise me. It also won't surprise me when people flip flop between xEnviro and SkyMaxx. xEnviro is the new kid on the block, and people always are seeking something new. The forums are not a good indicator to the market. These places are traditionally filled with negativity towards a product or service, but the vast majority of happy customers do not take part in forums or social media.

 

Go with whatever makes you happiest while you fly. I am here to put an end to this theory that xEnviro has somehow been a doom and gloom for us though. It couldn't possibly be farther from the truth. :)

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this is my reasoning regarding upgrade to SMP v4.

 

1. Shell out $20 for the upgrade now just to support development even though and based from what I have seen and read, most likely wont be using it since Im currently using xEa and feel it better suits my needs.)

 

2. Wait for v5 and see what it brings and pay full price.

 

Either way, I will end up paying $40 anyway, so I rather wait.

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Either way, I will end up paying $40 anyway, so I rather wait.

 

We're not done adding features to v4. So, in the event you like something that comes about after the initial upgrade window is up, you will ultimately have spent more.

 

There's some pretty cool things planned on the roadmap, but if that doesn't bother you and you're happy with what you have...great! :)

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We're not done adding features to v4. So, in the event you like something that comes about after the initial upgrade window is up, you will ultimately have spent more.

 

There's some pretty cool things planned on the roadmap, but if that doesn't bother you and you're happy with what you have...great! :)

 

 

 Its great to know you are adding more features Cameron, I don't mind paying the full price as long as what Im getting suits my needs.  We'll see.

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We're not done adding features to v4. So, in the event you like something that comes about after the initial upgrade window is up, you will ultimately have spent more.

 

There's some pretty cool things planned on the roadmap, but if that doesn't bother you and you're happy with what you have...great! :)

 

please tell more

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please tell more

 

Any announcements will be made at the proper time. This thread won't be it!

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Any announcements will be made at the proper time. This thread won't be it!

 

Ha, I couldn't agree more.... silly thread to begin with and totally inappropriate.  Since when do we start calling out developers here by name when they haven't been active to this particular forum in whatever time frame you personally deem proper?  Diarrhea of the keyboard is all I see.

 

Best of luck and thank you for what you do for our community.

 

And yes, I do currently use Xenviro and have previously used SMP.  We all know neither are perfect.

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Best of luck and thank you for what you do for our community.

 

Thanks, Allen!

 

 

 


And yes, I do currently use Xenviro and have previously used SMP.  We all know neither are perfect.

 

Enjoy xEnviro! :)

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Ha, I couldn't agree more.... silly thread to begin with and totally inappropriate.  Since when do we start calling out developers here by name when they haven't been active to this particular forum in whatever time frame you personally deem proper?  Diarrhea of the keyboard is all I see.

 

Best of luck and thank you for what you do for our community.

 

And yes, I do currently use Xenviro and have previously used SMP.  We all know neither are perfect.

+1 The thread is completely pointless! I think author is stirring the pot.

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The truth is I don't really visit this forum. The only times I will is immediately after a release because people have a tendency to seek support in various forums they should not be. Additionally, I have no business responding to xEnviro threads, or even trying to "compete" with them.

 

 

 

 

I don't think we made any mistakes at all. SkyMaxx Pro v4 broke release day sales records for any product we've ever sold. Additionally, it continues to outpace daily sales and projections of any previous versions of SkyMaxx Pro.

 

 

 

 

I don't buy into the whole "XP 11" increases our sales figures thing. A bunch of rubbish in my opinion, and had zero bearing as to our release timing or decisions.

 

 

 

 

Again, as I stated above. It's also been Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years in the span of release time. I greatly value time with my family during this time of year.

 

 

 

 

Precisely!

 

 

All this said, xEnviro is what it is, and some people will like it, some people won't. The same goes for SkyMaxx Pro. Our product is used in the major corporate scene by the "big boys" of aviation, including NASA, Boeing, Air Force, etc, and they have very strict standards for training requirements. The flight simulation hobby market tends to have so many people wanting polar opposites of things that none of the reactions here surprise me. It also won't surprise me when people flip flop between xEnviro and SkyMaxx. xEnviro is the new kid on the block, and people always are seeking something new. The forums are not a good indicator to the market. These places are traditionally filled with negativity towards a product or service, but the vast majority of happy customers do not take part in forums or social media.

 

Go with whatever makes you happiest while you fly. I am here to put an end to this theory that xEnviro has somehow been a doom and gloom for us though. It couldn't possibly be farther from the truth. :)

Noted, Cameron, and good to read from you, glad that as a company, things are a good stats quo.  While I like, as anybody might, competition of a specified product, I do not like any one company having a monopoly upon a genre.  So, again, I will always be interested to see any weather engine releases, you folks make mention of into the future of the hobby.

 

Cheers,

 

Mitch

Ha, I couldn't agree more.... silly thread to begin with and totally inappropriate.  Since when do we start calling out developers here by name when they haven't been active to this particular forum in whatever time frame you personally deem proper?  Diarrhea of the keyboard is all I see.

 

Best of luck and thank you for what you do for our community.

 

And yes, I do currently use Xenviro and have previously used SMP.  We all know neither are perfect.

Ah..good to see you expressing your opinion and take on things, forum wise. I hold a differing opinion.  Call out?  You come as from confrontational. I come from wondering outloud.  You didn't have to contribute to the thread. You did...right?  You made a decision to contribute? Right?  I did as well, but to the forum.  Thanks for posting. 

 

 You choose to post: 'Diarrhea of the keyboard is all I see.'

 

Yes, I could label the same to your response to my O.P.     I won't though...for we all express opinions within the forum.  Mine could be as non-diarrheatict as yours....unless you hold your opinions as some forum quantum where all shall be personally judged.

 

I don't for anybody else. I read them, and then carry on down the thread.

 

Mitch

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I will give SMP4 a go. I have enjoyed the previous offerings of this product.

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+1 The thread is completely pointless! I think author is stirring the pot.

Stirring what pot?  What pot are you referring to?  :hi:

 

But anyways, I was wondering what happened to the input of the product, by the company, and the dev, upon this forum, and they responded to me. My thoughts upon the matter are satisfied. Thanks.

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