hellmike

[Next Project] maybe a 727? please?

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Hello friends, now that we have 747v3, the 737NGx and the modern and wonderful 777, how about a different aircraft? How about the wonderful and passionate 727? I'm sure many people here share this idea, after all the only thing available is the one "made by the captain" that sucks

A 727 made by you, would be greatly appreciated, since the last one really good, is so old that it divided the skies with pterodactyls

To have a version of this incredible aircraft would be epic, starting from the classic model with INS up to the current ones updated with FMC and systems in general, that still are much used for cargo, what you think?

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Yes!!!! That would be fantastic.

Full names in the forum please, but I assume your name is Mike.

So With you and I, two are already sold!!!

Roberto

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2 hours ago, r_stopnicki said:

Yes!!!! That would be fantastic.

Full names in the forum please, but I assume your name is Mike.

So With you and I, two are already sold!!!

Roberto

My first name is Michael but "Mike" is okay :)

Let's up this idea until we reach the bigboss Randazzo and all the PMDG staff

#WEWANT727

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The 727 is by far the best looking aircraft Boeing has ever made. Haven't heard many pilots say anything bad about it either.

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Yes, besides being beautiful, he had an incredible performance, was a perfect bird

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If I'm not mistaken, I believe it was mentioned that the 727 was an aircraft some of the PMDG team would like to see developed as a project but they never confirmed if this would actually happen. With the 727 having so many variants it would indeed be a nice project. Newer aircraft are nice, but there is something about flying classic airliners that is unmatched.

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I think they are going to finish the 747-8 V2 first, then do the older 777-200ER and then there is room for a complete new project.

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FS2Crew would have a fun time modeling a first officer and flight engineer.  

 

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On 03/03/2017 at 3:45 PM, hellmike said:

the only thing available is the one "made by the captain" that sucks

The Captain Sim one doesn't 'suck', it's actually quite a nice add-on aeroplane, especially if you get it in one of their sales for a tenner, in which case it is a real bargain. It's also not the only one available, if you fly FS9 (as many people still do) there is also the Dreamfleet one, which is also good. There is also a nice one for X-Plane too if you've gone over to the Dark Side lol.

Sure, the CS 727 isn't flawless, but it has plenty to merit it too and to be honest, the only really unrealistic thing about it in general, is the EPR settings (and as noted in my review of it, there is a workaround for that).

You don't have to take my word for it though, has received lots of review awards, Mutley's gave it 9/10, PC Pilot gave it a Platinum Award, the CS download version of it got an Avsim Gold Star Award. If you do want to take my word for it however, when I reviewed the DVD version of it for Avsim, I noted the following pros and cons, which I think is probably a fair overall appraisal of it:

  • Looks great, both inside and out and is massively comprehensive as far as interior modeling goes.
  • VC lighting is especially worthy of praise.
  • Pretty realistic and will suit the hard core fliers, but can be flown by less hard core simmers easily enough (assuming you apply the trim tweak).
  • Has a great tutorial in the printed manual.
  • Has a nice simple paint kit.
  • Has a pretty useful configuration utility which does a lot of stuff.
  • Has a great cargo loading simulator, which is actually fun to use.
  • Flies well (if you tweak it).
  • For such a complex add-on, it runs pretty well.

And these cons:

  • Needs some tweaks to make it truly acceptable (notably to the trim), which may not appeal to those who wish to simply install it and go flying.
  • Sounds could do with being a bit better than they are.
  • Some issues with patch and repaint availability when buying the boxed DVD version.
  • Manuals could be more comprehensive.
  • Omitted TAT/EPR setting gauge makes flying it completely as per the real thing trickier than it should be, although there is a workaround for this.

If you are really a glutton for punishment lol, you can read my very in depth review of it here:

Avsim review of the Boxed DVD version of the CS 727 for FS

Yes it would be great if PMDG did a 727 or a DC-8 or some such, and I'd certainly like them to do so, but it's not as if there is no option for you to fly a pretty good 727 in FS and X-plane at the moment.

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The biggest problem of the Captain's 727 is the lack of failures, plus hundreds of items that certainly could get better... 787, 757, 767... all more of the same... a vintage jet is what will give you adrenaline...

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On 4/3/2017 at 9:34 PM, teopereira said:

... 787, 757, 767... all more of the same... a vintage jet is what will give you adrenaline...

That's your personal opinion!

Personally I would really love to see a 787 from PMDG.
Yes, yes, I know that QualityWings is developing one - but with the speed their on, PMDG could develop and release one, before they are finished... 

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We'd love to do some classic jets (727, DC-10 and the classic 747 would be my picks) - maybe it'll happen some day, but the issue is just that the automated modern ones are all that sell in the numbers we need for it to be worth the development cost/effort. Even doing a less-popular automated jet like the MD-11 resulted in sales far below where they need to be for it to be a viable product for us. Like it or not, the market wants highly automated and popular-in-the-real-world medium to long range jets over and over - we wish it wasn't that way, but it is!

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Hello Ryan,

Could you guys please consider releasing the DC-6 for FSX ........It was released a long time ago for Xplane and I am sure you have much more FSX potential customers 

Please 

Best regards 

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4 hours ago, Alaaar said:

Could you guys please consider releasing the DC-6 for FSX

We stated quite a while ago that we would be bringing it to FSX and P3D. Not sure why you were made to believe otherwise...

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8 hours ago, Anders Gron said:

That's your personal opinion!

Personally I would really love to see a 787 from PMDG.
Yes, yes, I know that QualityWings is developing one - but with the speed their on, PMDG could develop and release one, before they are finished... 

So how many planes do you need that you just program and then sit and watch. They are all the same and extremely boring. Try flying sometime, you might like it. :)

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1 hour ago, rototom said:

So how many planes do you need that you just program and then sit and watch. They are all the same and extremely boring. Try flying sometime, you might like it. :)

We all have different views on how we enjoy flying!! That doesn't make your way of flying the only way, and all others stupid and boring. That's your personal opinion. Please refrain from projecting this to others. 

Please... 

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I get that people are passionate about what they'd like us to take a look at, but do keep in mind that our user base is much larger than this forum. Moreover, you aren't going to sway our observations and path with a single argument (in the "here are my points" sense, and not "argument" as a syn to "tussle, or fight") in a single thread - regardless of how well you make your points. So, state your arguments in support of your viewpoints, but be kind to each other.

  1. Your points alone aren't going to instantly sway our decisions; and
  2. Convincing someone else with all of the subtlety of a shot to the face with a cudgel isn't either. It won't convince that person to agree with you very well, and they're not the person you need to convince. That would be us, and I'll remind you of Item 1, above.
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14 minutes ago, Anders Gron said:

We all have different views on how we enjoy flying!! That doesn't make your way of flying the only way, and all others stupid and boring. That's your personal opinion. Please refrain from projecting this to others. 

Please... 

Nobody said stupid. So please refrain from embellishing. And try to relax a little bit. An opinion is just an opinion.

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9 hours ago, Tabs said:

We'd love to do some classic jets (727, DC-10 and the classic 747 would be my picks)

I'd also love to see a PMDG 727, and more so, a PMDG 707. I'm sure a lot of other older simmers who have flown on these planes would also, I guess there just aren't enough of us around anymore. Being that the 727 is still flying in some countries I would think it would be more popular than an MD-11 but that is just a gut feeling.

Has PMDG considered asking for commitments in advance for a risky project like a 727 or 707? My thought is to set a price and ask for e-mail commitments. If you get enough to warrant the project, then ask for up front payments. If and only after you receive the committed payments, start the project. PMDG is the only addon developer that I have the confidence in to pay in advance and wait a few years for it to be developed.

If you get enough commitments, you get to do a classic jet and us old farts get to fly an exceptional one. If you don't get enough commitments, then you can say "This is why we cannot do a classic jet, so don't ask us again".

I have absolutely no idea what the cost to develop a classic jet addon is. Just a thought,

Ted Striker

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The MD-11 is a GREAT plane, but is not a vintage jet... It's buyers are MD-11 affectionates, a very small group indeed... Not to say the pirate copies around, which I think are in much greater number than the legitimate owners...

A vintage Boeing would be a great product for any NGX owner, because it teaches the basics about Boeing aircrafts and how Boeing systems evolved... A vintage Boeing can make you master chart reading and performance calculations and Boeing's history (how Boeing jet systems worked before complex computers)...

 

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Worth remembering here that the Boeing 727 has been out of production for 34 years; similarly, the last Douglas DC-8 was built 45 years ago, and the last completely new Boeing 707 rolled out of Everett 38 years ago (all those USAF tankers and AWACs aeroplanes are pretty much rebuilds or refurbs of existing airframes). These are very old aeroplanes. True, all three of those types are still (just about) flying, either as freighters or with the military in Iran or whatever, but probably not to an airport near you or I on anything like a regular basis, and it won't be long before Iran ditches their 707s and 727s completely, because they have just ordered a load of new A320s and new 737s.

So as far as commercially developing a simulated version of one of them to a 'study level' for FSX or P3D these days, that's going to be a big gamble and almost certainly a losing proposition. What is currently available for a particular sim platform is an issue with decisions like that too: It'd probably be far less of a gamble to make a 707 or a DC-8 or some such for X-Plane than for FSX or P3D, simply because there are not that many quality airliners for X-Plane, so a lot of X-Plane simmers would be inclined to buy anything that was of a sufficient level of quality, but even that is no guarantee of success and would certainly not be the only factor in deciding whether or not to greenlight a development process which might involve years of work and a considerable financial investment because of that. If PMDG started developing a B727 for FSX or P3D tomorrow, realistically it'd be going on sale in four years time, by which point the 727 would have been out of production for almost four decades and would not be in the skies at all, not to mention by that time, there might even be a new sim platform around. Would you want to gamble like that if PMDG were your business? I think you know the answer to that would be 'not a chance baby'.

The PMDG Douglas is a case in point here: 'if we build it, they will come' worked for their Douglas because of the limited number of top notch aeroplanes available for use in X-Plane and a more or less gauranteed status quo of X-Plane users on the increase. Even if that were not so, as a company it was worth PMDG dipping into X-Plane to see what the process was when developing for that platform too. Perhaps more importantly with wishlist threads on Avsim, the PMDG MD-11 was a hard lesson learned by them and one which will be foremost in their minds when people post threads wishing for them to make Fokker Triplane or whatever. We might like to fondly imagine that 'if we build it, they will come' is a mantra which PMDG could make a development decision on and it would always work, but it clearly did not with their MD-11. As we all know (ironically for PMDG too) the MD-11 was the wrong plane at the wrong time and more of an act of desperation from McDonnell Douglas in an attempt to recover from the financial disaster which was the DC-10, eventually seeing them go out of business as they took all their old plane designs and tried to tart them up (DC-9 becoming MD-80, 83 etc) rather than making new types, as Boeing and Airbus did. The lesson is clear, for real world developers of aeroplanes as it is for developers of simulated ones; you gotta move with the times.

So it's all very well for someone as old as me to want to see some of those jurassic jets flying around in my sim because I saw them filling the skies when I was a kid, but the reality is that to anyone into flight sims under the age of thirty, many will just regard those first and second generation jetliners jets as boring old bangers which are 'hard to fly' because they have no FMC, thus not what they are interested in flying. Yes we are passionate about those older jets, but we are the minority as far as paying customers go.

It's not all bad news of course, you can buy a simulated FSX 707, DC-8, 727, Comet, Vanguard, DC-10, L1011, VC-10 (soon), Constellation, DC-4, DC-6, DC-3 etc, you just have to be aware that it isn't going to be either economical, or always particularly practical either (where could you find an operational Sud Aviation Caravelle to record sounds off for example) for a developer to go all out on making a new one. Common sense tells them they will have to build such a thing to a price and level of detail based on how many they think they'd sell.

So you have to resign yourself to the fact that, where such classics are concerned, some will literally never be made in anything other than possibly freeware form because they are too obscure - Dassault Mercure (only 12 ever built) and Convair 880 (only 65 ever built) - some will only be made to a certain level of fidelity and thus a lower price because that's what most flight sim customers want - JF DC-8, Comet etc - and some more complex ones you will have to be content with using an older product; one which was made when the market was better able to support such an effort because those things were still in our skies, even in limited numbers (i.e. CS 727 and 707).

And as far as the arguments about having to 'be a pilot' to fly an older jet without some fancy autopilot which can do everything, or more of a 'computer operator' to fly a newer one which has those clever systems on board. That may be true, but it doesn't make it any less skilful or less fun to fly a modern jet with all those system one has to learn, it's just different.

I do agree that one approach might be to get a financial commitment from potential buyers (i.e. crowd fund) development of an older jet. But whether that would garner enough buyers who'd be prepared to stump up a hundred quid in advance is another matter. It worked for the developers of Elite Dangerous; I and many others paid two hundred quid several years in advance of the product eventually showing up, but that was of course a completely different type of product and one which many many people had fond memories of in its older form.

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