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No external lights illuminating ground when dynamic lighting disabled

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Hi,

I've just installed NGX for P3Dv4. When I turn on landing/taxi lights (at night) they are not illuminating ground even with " Landing-lights illuminate ground" option enabled.

I have to turn on "Dynamic lighting" to see landing/taxi lights illuminating ground (in external view and from VC). Is it correct? I've read "Dynamic lighting" should be turned off because of high performance drop (I also have framerate drop by 50% at default airport). But taxiing without lights illuminating ground can be "unhandy".

Cheers! 

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Why can't we have the option to use the old style lights? 

Im running a 980TI ASUS and with the lights off at FT CYYZ Im getting 38+FPS, when I turn them on its literally goes down to 8FPS.

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Hi there

I'd like to request to have the option for the old style light effects too, if it can be done. On my computer it is a choice between decent anti-aliasing or dynamic lights. While dynamic lights are nice, they certainly don't compare to a non-shimmery image so anti-aliasing is what I choose. It would be nice to have the old light effect so the ground still lights up the way it does on previous versions of P3D and FSX.

I appreciate there may be a lot of good reasons why it has been removed but, well, there's no harm in asking!

Cheers

Stu

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Can't you 'just' use MSAA instead of SSAA? That way, the impact on performance is quite minimal. I don't really understand why you would have flickering with MSAA instead of SSAA?! I run it at 1080p and 2xMSAA and have no performance impact with Dynamic Lights and it looks quite nice, to be honest.

I believe, that the old method is texture based and the new is an actual light source. Kinda worlds between them.

This discussion has already been debated to death in another topic. To have taxi/landing lights, you have to use Dynamic Lights. Apparently it isn't that easy to switch between the two methods.

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Hi Anders

Yes indeed I can use MSAA and the impact on frames is not nearly so bad, just when using SSAA.

But I have chosen SSAA because of the shimmering I get on my screen without it. This is really noticeable in the sea - I think it's the wave effects - as my head moves around it sort of looks like a tv that's not tuned in!

But the worst for me is at night - I use Orbx scenery and the street lights flash and flicker at a distance to the extent that I can't stand to look at it! I tried using FXAA and that sort of softens it a bit but it cuts down on the range I can see the street lights at. It's all a case of compromises and after trying each of the them for a while I decided that good looking anti-aliasing was worth more to me than the dynamic lights, so that's what I've gone with.

I certainly don't expect PMDG to jump to and sort it out just because that's what I've chosen, but I just wanted to make the suggestion that they introduce the option to have the old style in for those, like me who prefer to. If it's too much for them to do, then so be it, I'll have to taxi in the dark, lol!

It's just that all the other addon and default aircraft seem to have that option to have DL or the old style. Would be nice, but certainly not an 'end of the world' issue!

Cheers

Stu

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I understand your situation, but I'm a bit puzzled as to why you're experiencing these issues. I have flown at night and there's isn't any flicking and shimmering in my setup. My water isn't tearing or shimmering either... I'm using 2xMSAA with no FXAA... 

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9 minutes ago, Anders Bermann said:

I understand your situation, but I'm a bit puzzled as to why you're experiencing these issues. I have flown at night and there's isn't any flicking and shimmering in my setup. My water isn't tearing or shimmering either... I'm using 2xMSAA with no FXAA... 

Post a screenshot, you got me curious. Anything less than 8x SSAA looks godawful on my setup.

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1 hour ago, Ioan92 said:

Post a screenshot, you got me curious. Anything less than 8x SSAA looks godawful on my setup.

Agreed the shimmering at night in particular from lights on anything less than 4 x SSAA is painful!  I recently watched a Chewwy stream and he was coming into land at London Heathrow at dusk, he remarked how gorgeous it looked but all I saw was a load of shimmering!!  Guess some people don't notice or mind it as much.  But I agree with you.

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I just tested the PMDG737 P3Dv4 at night ...

My FPS is locked at 25 and I get 24.8 with DL ON.

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3 hours ago, vonmar said:

I just tested the PMDG737 P3Dv4 at night ...

My FPS is locked at 25 and I get 24.8 with DL ON.

Whats your AA setting? 

My first flight tonight using the 737 NGX and with 4 x SSAA (the only option to kill shimmering for me) the difference is about 8-12 FPS if I drop down to 8 x MSAA with DL on but then everything shimmers especially ORBX night lighting, its just plain ugly and distracting.  Now obviously you cant compromise the lights of the NGX if you fly at night so unless PMDG can change this (suspect not) I personally will have to put up with shimmering or taxi around in the dark lol.  Hmmmm, tough choice!

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21 minutes ago, sidfadc said:

Whats your AA setting? 

My first flight tonight using the 737 NGX and with 4 x SSAA (the only option to kill shimmering for me) the difference is about 8-12 FPS if I drop down to 8 x MSAA with DL on but then everything shimmers especially ORBX night lighting, its just plain ugly and distracting.  Now obviously you cant compromise the lights of the NGX if you fly at night so unless PMDG can change this (suspect not) I personally will have to put up with shimmering or taxi around in the dark lol.  Hmmmm, tough choice!

4xMSAA

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SSAA kills performance with dynamic lights as has been pointed out. LM and PMDG are well aware of this. It's MSAA or no dynamic lights, you can't have SSAA + DL + good performance.

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I use 2xSSAA with Dynamic lights at payware airports (UK2000 EGCC, for example) and I get very acceptable performance. And it looks fine, by my eye.

It's safe to say, your mileage may vary.

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13 hours ago, stufer said:

Hi Anders

Yes indeed I can use MSAA and the impact on frames is not nearly so bad, just when using SSAA.

But I have chosen SSAA because of the shimmering I get on my screen without it. This is really noticeable in the sea - I think it's the wave effects - as my head moves around it sort of looks like a tv that's not tuned in!

But the worst for me is at night - I use Orbx scenery and the street lights flash and flicker at a distance to the extent that I can't stand to look at it! I tried using FXAA and that sort of softens it a bit but it cuts down on the range I can see the street lights at. It's all a case of compromises and after trying each of the them for a while I decided that good looking anti-aliasing was worth more to me than the dynamic lights, so that's what I've gone with.

I certainly don't expect PMDG to jump to and sort it out just because that's what I've chosen, but I just wanted to make the suggestion that they introduce the option to have the old style in for those, like me who prefer to. If it's too much for them to do, then so be it, I'll have to taxi in the dark, lol!

It's just that all the other addon and default aircraft seem to have that option to have DL or the old style. Would be nice, but certainly not an 'end of the world' issue!

Cheers

Stu

Try 2x MSAA in the sim and 2x SGSS in the Nvidia Inspector. That should help without making dynamic lighting on a slide show.

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33 minutes ago, Cargostorm said:

Try 2x MSAA in the sim and 2x SGSS in the Nvidia Inspector. That should help without making dynamic lighting on a slide show.

Try 8x MSAA + either 8x Supersampling or 2x Sparse Grid Supersampling in the inspector and turn on Nvidia FXAA.

Then fire up Photoshop, get the DDS tool and batch add mipmaps to all your textures.

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3 hours ago, Cargostorm said:

Try 2x MSAA in the sim and 2x SGSS in the Nvidia Inspector. That should help without making dynamic lighting on a slide show.

Thanks for that suggestion Chris, I'll certainly give it a try. I haven't tried using NI with this sim yet so it may be worth having a look at some of the settings in there.

Cheers

Stu

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23 minutes ago, stufer said:

Thanks for that suggestion Chris, I'll certainly give it a try. I haven't tried using NI with this sim yet so it may be worth having a look at some of the settings in there.

Cheers

Stu

At least with my setup it is a good compromise. I have still texture shimmering, but not as bad as with 8x MSAA alone and not an fps impact as with any of the SSAA modes.

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Hello dear!

I understand that paid not a lot of money to demand the fulfillment of all my wishes.But... Agree that the right decision for the PMDG team, if they gave us Simmern, choice. If anyone uses dynamic light, please, here such textures. Do not use - other textures. And there would be no problems. Frankly, I don't want to dance shamanic dances with a tambourine, changing MSAA and SSAA...

Not all have top-end computers, and the product from PMDG is really nice and the bulk is very popular.

Please, listen to us, the users of Your great product. And that is to fly only in the afternoon... Which is not good for us.

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So us SSAA, SGAA users now seem to have the choice of a black runway
or low teen FPS. Wonderful.

gb.

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I agree with the both of you, this is a poor design choice. What happened to the lighting system used on the FSX 777 anyway? There was nothing wrong with it. You could increase the price of the addon to 200$ and add support for non dynamic lights and I would buy it. Again.

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1 hour ago, gboz said:

So us SSAA, SGAA users now seem to have the choice of a black runway
or low teen FPS. Wonderful.

gb.

Or not use SSAA like the majority of others, and have a lit up runway and good performance

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21 minutes ago, PMDG777 said:

Or not use SSAA like the majority of others, and have a lit up runway and good performance

Eh, the lighting is pretty dim anyway. Guess having it all dark isn't such a disaster. :cool:

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Basically you have the following options:

  • Dynamic Lighting
  • SSAA setting
  • Good performance

You can only choose two of them at a time.

Take your pick... I'm not sure, that I agree with the term 'poor design choice'. They've made this on purpose and I suspect there's a reason why they've scrapped the old system in favor of the new.
There must be a reason why it's not possible to incorporate both systems. My guess would be, that it likely would mean two different models and base-texture sets. That would drive up the download size of the aircraft considerably. I'm certain that they didn't made the choice just so they could antagonize their customers... 

This whole discussion reminds me of the AA + Clouds + bad performance, which has intensely discussed some time ago... 

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I'm having an other issue regarding dynamic lightning: yesterday i installed the NGX and made a short check. I'm using EZDOK and TrackIR and when i turn the head the dynamic lightning of the landing lights, taxi lights etc. seems to turn off in different angles.

Will do further tests but maybe someone else has also seen this.

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