Zimmerbz

30hz vs 60hz

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Dumb question, but I keep reading about people wanting 30hz vs. 60hz but I am not sure what the difference would be when running 4.1.  My monitor specs are below and can handle 60hz but I am not sure why I should (or why people say) to go to 30.  Can someone give me the run down?  My specs are below. 

Win10, Gigabyte Aorus Z270x Gaming 5, LGA 1151, Intel 7th Gen Core i7 7700K (4.7GHz Overclock) Quad Core, Corsair Hydro Series H60 Liquid Cooling, 16GB G.Skill DDR4 SDRAM 2400MHz, 6GB Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060, PCI Express 3.0, 750 Watt Corsair RM Series Power Supply, 500GB Samsung EVO 850 Solid State Drive (SSD)

 

Dell 34" Curved monitor U3415W (specs below).  What HZ should I be running for best performance? It has 60hz Vsync rate at max performance. 

LED monitor

curved

34.08" (34.08" viewable)

3440 x 1440 QHD

IPS

300 cd/m²

1000:1

5 ms

2xHDMI

DisplayPort

Mini DisplayPort

MHL

speakers

black

for Latitude 13 7350

7370; OptiPlex 7040

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Good information in this thread:

Pay special attention to Rob's posts in that thread.

 

 

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To make a quick summary, 30Hz means you only need to sustain 30 FPS (minimum) to avoid "stutters" (long frames).  60Hz means you need to sustain 60 FPS (minimum) to avoid stutters.  You can run more add-ons and increase graphics settings when you only need to sustain 30 FPS.  In all cases, running Vsync On and Unlimited frames, you're slaved to the Vsync signal.

Now, there are alternatives to this approach that can produce good results also if you can't operate at 30Hz.  Limit frame rates, us NI to do 1/2 refresh rate, or try adaptive refresh.

But to clarify, 60Hz will always be visually smoother than 30Hz, just as 120Hz will be visually smoother than 60Hz ... BUT the need for Hz frequency depends on your rate of motion.  If you fly high speed military aircraft with TrackIR and your head is moving quickly all the time, then you'll want 60Hz or higher (what 3D shooters typically like).  However, if you typically fly slow GA, or commercial aircraft then you probably don't need more than 30hz to keep the sense of fluid stutter free motion.

Cheers, Rob.

 

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1 hour ago, Zimmerbz said:

Dell 34" Curved monitor U3415W (specs below).  What HZ should I be running for best performance? It has 60hz Vsync rate at max performance

I have the same monitor and it only appears to be able to run at 60 or 50hz but I keep it at 60hz. I have had good luck lately using the 1/2 refresh in Nvidia Inspector along with using FPS limit of 30.5 or 31 in NI as well. Keep Vsync off and FPS unlimited in P3D.  I am now getting super smooth flights as long as I am able to maintain the 30fps. I have some trouble with that using the FSL A320 at times but it still seems to be the best solution I have found so far.

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I am having some great performance with a 49"4K at 25hz. What i still cant figur out is when setting to VSYNC off my fps is between 40-70 fps  BUT sometimes doing nothing at all i see it drop to 25-30fps  and back again. Like a spike.

This is why i sometimes see below 25 fps/25HZ in the sim i guess or by putting to much to the table  but it seems strange doesnt it ?

Thanks

Michael Moe

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28 minutes ago, Flic1 said:

I have the same monitor and it only appears to be able to run at 60 or 50hz but I keep it at 60hz. I have had good luck lately using the 1/2 refresh in Nvidia Inspector along with using FPS limit of 30.5 or 31 in NI as well. Keep Vsync off and FPS unlimited in P3D.  I am now getting super smooth flights as long as I am able to maintain the 30fps. I have some trouble with that using the FSL A320 at times but it still seems to be the best solution I have found so far.

Setting Vsync to 1/2 refresh rate in NI doesn't  seem to function at all on my system. P3DV4.1

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Hi Rob ,

Would you use the 1/2 refresh with VSYNC & TB off, I have a gaming laptop, which will only run at 60hz.

I have had some improvements using the 1/2 refresh, also used the Affinity in the windows task manager to move p3d away from cores 0,1. Also have a dedicated SSD for P3d & a SSD for the OS & addons works great.

Contemplating downloading  Lasso to use to help with this.

Regards

Chris.

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53 minutes ago, Flic1 said:

I have the same monitor and it only appears to be able to run at 60 or 50hz but I keep it at 60hz. I have had good luck lately using the 1/2 refresh in Nvidia Inspector along with using FPS limit of 30.5 or 31 in NI as well. Keep Vsync off and FPS unlimited in P3D.  I am now getting super smooth flights as long as I am able to maintain the 30fps. I have some trouble with that using the FSL A320 at times but it still seems to be the best solution I have found so far.

1/2 refresh rate in NVI has no effect on P3D as this only works with applications that run in true full screen mode (not borderless window mode as P3D runs). Limiting frames is what's keeping your sim smooth, as it's essentially limiting the output to half your 60Hz refresh rate anyway.

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2 hours ago, Flic1 said:

I have the same monitor and it only appears to be able to run at 60 or 50hz but I keep it at 60hz. I have had good luck lately using the 1/2 refresh in Nvidia Inspector along with using FPS limit of 30.5 or 31 in NI as well. Keep Vsync off and FPS unlimited in P3D.  I am now getting super smooth flights as long as I am able to maintain the 30fps. I have some trouble with that using the FSL A320 at times but it still seems to be the best solution I have found so far.

I have the same monitor and I'm able to run it a 30Hz. I followed what MadDog shared on this topic.

Display Changer 30Hz

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2 hours ago, odourboy said:

Setting Vsync to 1/2 refresh rate in NI doesn't  seem to function at all on my system. P3DV4.1

It has never worked in P3D because P3D doesn't use a true 'fullscreen' mode.

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2 hours ago, ChrisKSDF said:

1/2 refresh rate in NVI has no effect on P3D as this only works with applications that run in true full screen mode (not borderless window mode as P3D runs). Limiting frames is what's keeping your sim smooth, as it's essentially limiting the output to half your 60Hz refresh rate anyway.

Well, so much for that idea!!:laugh:  That may very well be the case and it's just the FPS limiting that is making the experience better.  One thing for sure is that setting FPS limits in Nvidia Inspector works much better than setting them in the sim which tends to kill my performance. I have always been running with unlimited but have been doing some testing to smooth out some stutters I have been getting.

 

34 minutes ago, Samaritano said:

I have the same monitor and I'm able to run it a 30Hz. I followed what MadDog shared on this topic.

Display Changer 30Hz

I'll have to check this out..thanks!

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On 12/15/2017 at 5:40 PM, Rob Ainscough said:

NI to do 1/2 refresh rate

1

Why would you say that? You know that doesn't work? Or does it? Again, why would you say that?

(sorry, I know it's an old topic but I'm currently researching 30Hz and stumbled upon this)

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3 hours ago, 0Artur0 said:

Why would you say that? You know that doesn't work? Or does it? Again, why would you say that?

NI 1/2 refresh rate works for some and not others ... depends on your OS (Win7/Win10), your monitor, your GPU, GPU driver version.  I have several monitors that operate only at 60Hz and I've still never needed NI 1/2 refresh rate option, I just set TFR to 30 ... however everyone has different OS/hardware so it might be a viable option if TFR = 30 isn't working for them.  Also, as drivers change, nVidia now have an "Adaptive Vsync" that can be selected in NCP that might help.

The rumor that NI 1/2 refresh rate is tied to "exclusive full screen mode" is just that, a rumor ... the Vsync signal will always be present, how nVidia choose to operate from it is on them and there is no limitation of "true full screen mode".

Cheers, Rob.

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7 minutes ago, Rob Ainscough said:

The rumor that NI 1/2 refresh rate is tied to "exclusive full screen mode" is just that, a rumor ... the Vsync signal will always be present, how nVidia choose to operate from it is on them and there is no limitation of "true full screen mode".

Cheers, Rob.

3

Interesting you call that a rumor yet nobody was able to provide a definitive proof that 1/2 refresh rate vsync actually works for them in P3D and that's not a placebo effect. On the other hand, the effect of 1/2 refresh rate vsync in FSX working (in true fullscreen mode) is extremely obvious. So, it worked for ALL in FSX (true fullscreen mode) and it takes a mythical combination of hardware and software in P3D (not a true fullscreen mode) to allegedly work for a few. Just saying 🙂 

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Like I said, the Vsync signal is always present regardless of window mode used ... I haven't polled the entire population of FSX or P3D users to know if NI 1/2 refresh or NCP adaptive Vsync worked or didn't work ... the very small population of users I've been exposed to and that came to about a 60/40 mix.

Cheers, Rob.

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On 12/15/2017 at 1:20 PM, ChrisKSDF said:

1/2 refresh rate in NVI has no effect on P3D as this only works with applications that run in true full screen mode (not borderless window mode as P3D runs). Limiting frames is what's keeping your sim smooth, as it's essentially limiting the output to half your 60Hz refresh rate anyway.

Not true at all. It absolutely works. Everyone's rig is different but it personally gives a smoother experience in v4 while allowing the refresh rate left at 60hz.

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10 minutes ago, American 833 Heavy said:

Not true at all. It absolutely works. Everyone's rig is different but it personally gives a smoother experience in v4 while allowing the refresh rate left at 60hz.

Some need 30Hz monitors to get smooth, stutter-free experience in P3D when FPS is above 30, some apparently only need to set 1/2 refresh rate vsync (on 60Hz monitors). I wish I'd knew what it takes to get this setting to work. 

Edited by 0Artur0

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