1 hour ago, mikealpha said:

Exactly, what defines it ? So now we have deep system simulation and failure simulation. But imagine you have that, but the AP doesn't come close to the real behaviour. You end up thousands of feet above your IAF in VNAV, have to ride the speedbrake or the AP puts the plane in a steep dive, all what the real plane wouldn't do. So the discussed TFDI would jump out of the list right away. So : A custom Autopilot coming close to the real behaviour would be one requirement.

That's a funny one. Maybe that's why we so often read 'tested by real pilot' in advertisements. Even at Carenado :-)))

Mike

I think that just means that someone who is a real pilot was able to load it successfully into the sim and fly it about a bit. 

2 hours ago, mikealpha said:

Exactly, what defines it ? So now we have deep system simulation and failure simulation. But imagine you have that, but the AP doesn't come close to the real behaviour. You end up thousands of feet above your IAF in VNAV, have to ride the speedbrake or the AP puts the plane in a steep dive, all what the real plane wouldn't do. So the discussed TFDI would jump out of the list right away. So : A custom Autopilot coming close to the real behaviour would be one requirement.

...

Mike

I'm guessing you've had a less than stellar experience here, but let's not confuse a bug, which will most likely be addressed (if it hasn't been already) with the intent to deeply code systems etc. On that basis, I'd also argue that such and such aircraft is "a few bug fixes away from study level", is in fact a study level aircraft already (assuming of course that the dev is actively fixing bugs).

The iFly737 and 747. 

Xtreme Prototypes Classic GLJ Model Special Edition V2.1 Learjet 25D  https://xtremeprototypes.com/en/product_GLJ25_se_v2r1.asp

On 2/5/2018 at 10:12 PM, Nyxx said:

Study level. (Simulation of abnormals).

1) By a good margin = FSL A320

2)

3)

4) Q400 Training  edition, not yet released.

5) PMDG 737-777-747

 As real as it gets!

In no order,

Leonardo Maddog MD 80 (to come), TDFi 717, CLJ25, A2A, Real air (closed down), Q400 <best in class,

There the ones I've own cannot think of any other Study level, as real as it gets!, Alan (Chock) is the man I think could answer that one really well.

 

What is CLJ25 pls?

8 minutes ago, Blaser said:

What is CLJ25 pls?

Xtreme Prototypes Classic GLJ Model Special Edition V2.1 Learjet 25D https://xtremeprototypes.com/en/product_GLJ25_se_v2r1.asp

Just now, JLuis said:

Xtreme Prototypes Classic GLJ Model Special Edition V2.1 Learjet 25D https://xtremeprototypes.com/en/product_GLJ25_se_v2r1.asp

Thank you

You can still get end of stock boxed versions of RealAir  aircraft  & although the company has closed down there is still help & tweaks by the community to get both fully working in P3Dv4.  Ive seen boxed versions for sale on some of the flight sim sites & also places like Ebay.  Definitely worth getting hold of a copy (ies ) IMO.    I have both fully working in P3dv4 by the way

On 2/5/2018 at 11:23 AM, BamaKevin said:

Would TFDI 717 make it?

YES!!!!

 

I dont own it but was wondering if folks who own it think the QW 787 is study level?

4 hours ago, cptrobie said:

I dont own it but was wondering if folks who own it think the QW 787 is study level?

Brings us back to the question 'what *is* study level?'
Or more appropriately, what does the term 'study level' mean to you?

There are so many ways to define the term (whether failures are modelled, whether there's a programmable FMC, or if you need to do more than just hit Ctrl + E on your keyboard to start engine(s).

IMHO, the QW787 is a pretty, mid-tier payware airliner. You need to 'study' how to operate it correctly, like any Aerosoft Airbus. And just like the Aerosoft Airbuses, there are some nice extras like a built-in co-pilot. For anything outside of normal ops, unlike anything by FSLabs, PMDG and Majestic, there's not very much to simulate. But then, just how often does an airline pilot experience failures, and how relatable is that to us. especially when we only simulate a fraction of their total number of hours?
 

Edited February 5, 20206 yr by F737NG

6 hours ago, F737NG said:

Brings us back to the question 'what *is* study level?'
Or more appropriately, what does the term 'study level' mean to you?

There are so many ways to define the term (whether failures are modelled, whether there's a programmable FMC, or if you need to do more than just hit Ctrl + E on your keyboard to start engine(s).

IMHO, the QW787 is a pretty, mid-tier payware airliner. You need to 'study' how to operate it correctly, like any Aerosoft Airbus. And just like the Aerosoft Airbuses, there are some nice extras like a built-in co-pilot. For anything outside of normal ops, unlike anything by FSLabs, PMDG and Majestic, there's not very much to simulate. But then, just how often does an airline pilot experience failures, and how relatable is that to us. especially when we only simulate a fraction of their total number of hours?
 

Great comment. Do we really sit there and recreate failures every time we fly. No. So in that sense these addons are excellent.

However, on the broader comment about Level of detail to real life, no they do not compare nor do they purport to say they do. The FSL/PMDG/Majestic are outstanding simulations no doubt but back to my first comment.

Also rest assured, you are most unlikely to find any other developer take on another 787 or a CRJ or an ERJ because these are pretty good stand-alone simulations and developers are not going to waste their limited resources on products where the commercial potential is limited by the shrunken customer base who have already put their hard earned money towards these existing products, and may not be persuaded by the prospect of extensive failures and systems..

"Study Level, "Tested by real Pilots", "As real as it gets", etc. is just marketing bs, invented by folks to sell addons.

The FS Labs isn't any more "study level" then the default Cessna - in both cases you're sitting in front of a 2-D monitor pushing around a cheap plastic yoke.

20 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

"Study Level, "Tested by real Pilots", "As real as it gets", etc. is just marketing bs, invented by folks to sell addons.

The FS Labs isn't any more "study level" then the default Cessna - in both cases you're sitting in front of a 2-D monitor pushing around a cheap plastic yoke.

What?  Are you not familiar with the systems of the airbus and how FSLabs has modeled them?  Any flight sim pilot can load the default cessna and fly it without any other knowledge.  

1 hour ago, Ricardo41 said:

"Study Level, "Tested by real Pilots", "As real as it gets", etc. is just marketing bs, invented by folks to sell addons.

The FS Labs isn't any more "study level" then the default Cessna - in both cases you're sitting in front of a 2-D monitor pushing around a cheap plastic yoke.

What a useless comment. We are all aware we are discussing desktop sim, so whats the value in your comment?