9 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

I agree that default autogen looks rubbish, but the autogen in (for example) ORBx TrueEarth South looks really nice when I am on final approach to various UK airports. This is why I am so impatient for ORBx TrueEarth Central!

I totally agree.  Their TrueEarth technology looks great!

 

 

11 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

Rob Ainscough found a 30% drop in FPS with a default install. 50% with Orbx. Any way you slice it, this is not the "greatest" version LM has released.

Source: https://www.prepar3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6312&t=133165&start=60

Almost every version of an update to a major product like P3D has issues and these issues are found and fixed in another update (i.e., the HotFix).  Thanks for bringing to our member's attention of an impending update/hotfix because of a couple of issues.

1 hour ago, Jim Young said:

I thought the performance issue was NOT with P3DV4 by itself but with products like Orbx/FTX.  P3DV4.5 works great with compatible many addons but some add-ons are not compatible and P3D wants to fix that.  For me, if I have performance issue with a certain add-on, I would disable it until a fix was released.  It is clearly apparent though the LM techs did something with their code to make compatibility with some Orbx products.  I wholeheartedly endorse anyone and everyone to upgrade to the latest version.  Since I have not installed any Orbx/FTX product for v4.5, I see no issues whatsoever.  So yes.  I'm one of the guilty who proudly endorses upgrading to the latest and greatest.

Unfortunately this is one of the few times you are wrong Jim. I have 30% lower performance with 4.5 and do not use the blamed Orbx products. And Rob A. did extensive testing on virgin 4.4 installs and 4.5 installs (i.e. no add-ons) on two separate systems and came up with the same results.

It was these results, fed to L-M with full documentation -- graphs, measures, as well as videos -- which convinced them to act so quickly. As you must know, if there are any problems with P3D they always need them demonstrated with a virgin install. They are not making specific changes in P3D to make it more amenable to individual application programming quirks.

Pete

 

8 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

Unfortunately this is one of the few times you are wrong Jim. I have 30% lower performance with 4.5 and do not use the blamed Orbx products.

I did not say there was no FPS issue.  But, when one reads my OP and sees that I had the PMDG 747 loaded plus ASP4 plus UTLive, and had loaded 8 MegaSceneries and I still got over 52fps on the average and a high at 82 fps.  What difference, for me, would it be for me as I got great performance, stability, and a smooth flight based on data taken from your excellent FSUIPC5 program.  I don't think anyone could have accomplished the flight scenario in say, P3DV3 or earlier or even in FSX.  When you load 8 Megasceneries, that uses a lot of resources.  For me, P3DV4.5 was more than sufficient for my flight from FlightBean KIAD to FSDT KORD with high p3d settings. 

It will be interesting to me to see what the fps are when the hotfix is released.  Will I then get an average of 82 fps during the flight and have a fps over 100 as the highest?  Me thinks not.

I was just taken aback by the rude comment made by Chapman that some of our members are recommending P3D be upgraded to version 4.5 when LM clearly indicates performance issues.  Does my OP indicate performance issues?  Me thinks not and I was only trying to bring out this point with my OP. 

You still did not get it, did you? I repeat: when disabling autogen fully, it is absolutely no surprise nor anything special to reach the FPS numbers you have (they are even relatively low to me for your hardware...). If you like to fly around without autogen, that is up to you, most people do not and for those, v4.5 introduced a FPS loss from 30% to 50%. Which is of course totally relevant, because those people do not have an average of 52FPS like you do without any autogen, but rather 30-35FPS. And for those, 30% less FPS is a killer... That is all people trying to tell you here...

And in contrast to you, I would not be surprised if you would also get about 30% more FPS as soon as the 4.5 hotfix is released. Of course not 82FPS in average, but maybe something around 65-70. Besides that, you are right about 8 Megasceneries using a lot of ressources, but I doubt that this affect FPS numbers that much.

In fsx you had a bug in the core system setting autogen to none caused problems... did LM fix that in P3D?

11 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

Unfortunately this is one of the few times you are wrong Jim. I have 30% lower performance with 4.5 and do not use the blamed Orbx products. And Rob A. did extensive testing on virgin 4.4 installs and 4.5 installs (i.e. no add-ons) on two separate systems and came up with the same results.

It was these results, fed to L-M with full documentation -- graphs, measures, as well as videos -- which convinced them to act so quickly. As you must know, if there are any problems with P3D they always need them demonstrated with a virgin install. They are not making specific changes in P3D to make it more amenable to individual application programming quirks.

Pete

 

Indeed, the problem isn't specifically related to OrbX, it's just that OrbX sceneries typically use a LOT of scenery objects, which exacerbates the problem. Other scenery products and probably even default scenery are affected by the bug which was introduced in P3D 4.5.

Either way, a fix is on the way, so for now just stick with 4.4. If you've upgraded to 4.5 and don't want to downgrade, you'll have to live with using lower settings for the next few weeks.

Just tested my both pc’s with Unlimited. Framerates about the same in V4.5 as when using 4.4.

I cannot explain why some have those framerate drops and others not. Hopefully the upcoming hotfix will solve this for all that suffer from it...

On the subject of autogen I have when flying at night set the autogen to zero don't see it flying the airliners, on 4.5 performance I have been tweaking but find performance down slightly on 4.4 have considered going back, updated the Client Scenery and Content will I have to rollback all three or just the Client in 4.4, till the fix is released. 

48 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Just tested my both pc’s with Unlimited. Framerates about the same in V4.5 as when using 4.4.

I cannot explain why some have those framerate drops and others not. Hopefully the upcoming hotfix will solve this for all that suffer from it...

You are spot on, the only way i do get the problem is if i load regions of Orbx and Netherlands, for now it's in the hanger (this was the same in 4.4), I have tons of mega scenery airports and add ons with great framerates, (fs global mesh vector base, vector, open lc europe and north america obviously installed ) hopefully the hotfix will fix this issue. Autogen is set to medium.

14 minutes ago, kurtb said:

You are spot on, the only way i do get the problem is if i load regions of Orbx and Netherlands, for now it's in the hanger (this was the same in 4.4), I have tons of mega scenery airports and add ons with great framerates, (fs global mesh vector base, vector, open lc europe and north america obviously installed ) hopefully the hotfix will fix this issue. Autogen is set to medium.

I always test in the Amsterdam area with bad weather.

TE NL + FT Amsterdam + PSX AI

 

 

You should test at EGLL with all your scenery and TGBS including EU ENGLAND

 

This thread is actually precisely what I was looking for, despite the obvious result of 'no autogen = great FPS'

The fact is that I used to have MSE SoCal a long time ago, and really liked it. Indeed, because of the lack of autogen, it ran really well, and I loved the looks of the sprawling LA metropolitan area. I've been considering getting the MSE v3 LA area, but frankly I'm not too sure how satisfied I would be flying without autogen, on approach to LAC, SNA or BUR. In addition, OrbX has vastly upgraded the area with tons of landmarks and POIs, which I wouldn't want to be without. Their rendition of Downtown LA is of course superior to whatever P3D has by default, and they include the taller office and residential buildings of Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Longbeach, etc. Of course there is the question of the lack of seasons, and while SoCal certainly does have seasonal variations, I don't think I'd be too concerned not seeing them (but yes, I agree that an area such as New York with proper seasonal variation would be a little silly, though I understand some people prefer to only fly in summer, for instance).

So here's my question: has anybody ever managed to merge OrbX SoCal with MSEv3's LA or SoCal PR regions? I would love to do this for LA, San Diego and San Fran - imagine it'll look beautiful. I suppose one could make autogen coverage as well, using Arno's wonderful tools. I might look into that some time. But, at this point just knowing OrbX and MSE could be merged would be the starting point.

"I would love to do this for LA, San Diego and San Fran - imagine it'll look beautiful."

Well, if you can hold out a tad longer... it is already being done!   Patience though, as we are working our little fingers to the bone to get this out. 😊

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/545354-introducing-simwestfotoreal/

 

9 minutes ago, Clutch Cargo said:

"I would love to do this for LA, San Diego and San Fran - imagine it'll look beautiful."

Well, if you can hold out a tad longer... it is already being done!   Patience though, as we are working our little fingers to the bone to get this out. 😊

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/545354-introducing-simwestfotoreal/

 

Holy smokes! Looks gorgeous! So just to clarify, are you also enabling a merge with OrbX SoCal? For exmaple, wil lthis allow the use of San Diego's POIs that OrbX placed in the area?

Also, if you need a beta tester... 😉