Thomasso

The best traffic and ATC combo?

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Hi, 

I've been flying offline for quite a long time, but the empty world is becoming a little boring for me.

I definitely want to buy the Ultimate Traffic Live, as it looks like the best traffic add-on currently available. 

But I feel like only a traffic add-on won't be very useful because I will have no idea about the surrounding traffic (no ATC). So I want an ATC software that will control the UTL traffic. 

What is the best combo for P3D 4.5 at the moment? 

Thanks, Tomas 

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3 minutes ago, Thomasso said:

I definitely want to buy the Ultimate Traffic Live, as it looks like the best traffic add-on currently available. 

Please don't, waste of money with their abysmal support.

Check this out;

It's free and far superior.

 

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UTL is the best traffic program that you can currently throw money at to get marginal AI, but it's nowhere near to what you can have with AIG's AIM for free. 

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Hi

I would definitely second AIG for traffic, but in my opinion there unfortunately  isn’t really a good ATC programme that does all that is required. 

Regards

G

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I second the use for AIG! 😉

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I'm thoroughly enjoying flying with PSXseeconTraffic, and Lorby has a nice one as well (Lorby Live Traffic).

Aircraft you see are their real world counterparts, flying the actual routes including SIDs and STARs.  Liveries are courtesy of FLAI (which are outstanding).  I also fly on VATSIM.

There are a few things in development to improve all this, but i wouldn't look for any of the to mature to Beta Stages for a couple of years (please don't ask, I can't say anything else).

Best wishes!

 

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Huh, I had no idea about the freeware option. Thanks guys, I'll definitely look into it! 🙂

So there is no viable ATC software compatible with that? So how do you know that you can land or takeoff if the ai isn't controlled? How do you avoid an airplane entering the runway when you're on final? 

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PROATC works fine with UTL. Ive never heard of AIG either but I may check it out to see if PROATC works with that.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Thomasso said:

So there is no viable ATC software compatible with that? So how do you know that you can land or takeoff if the ai isn't controlled? How do you avoid an airplane entering the runway when you're on final? 

In case of PSXseeconTraffic you don't need an ATC software package and would not even work. The AI is controlled by real live ATC! In some countries you can listen to live ATC in real time as well.

If you take the place of a real live aircraft in the queue for landing (the block call sign option in PSXseeconTraffic), the real live traffic controller will not let an aircraft enter the runway until you have landed.

Nico Kaan

developer of PSXseeconTraffic

Edited by kiek

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So I have downloaded the AIG just now and I am a bit confused. I have no idea what to do. Is there some kind of a manual for the installation? Where are the plane models, repaints, schedules?

Thank you for the advice 🙂

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You run the AI Manager (current version is 0.9.0.3). After settings are completed click "Online" then "Available Online" choose a prominent "Airline" (of your favorite airport) within "Not Installed" and the AI Manager will do the rest: Installs the fllght plans/traffic.bgl and all necessary aircraft models  (with  several variations of the chosen airline). It also places an add-on.xml which activate airplanes and traffic. Repeat for each airline you want to see. Nothing easier than that, when you get used to it.

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Just now, Nemo said:

You run the AI Manager (current version is 0.9.0.3). After settings are completed click "Online" then "Available Online" choose a prominent "Airline" (of your favorite airport) within "Not Installed" and the AI Manager will do the rest: Installs the fllght plans/traffic.bgl and all necessary aircraft models  (with  several variations of the chosen airline). It also places an add-on.xml which activate airplanes and traffic. Repeat for each airline you want to see. Nothing easier than that, when you get used to it.

Thanks Harry, seems easy enough 🙂.  I am just watching this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWe3A3mZQ_s

What is the role of the FLAi models?

 

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1 minute ago, Thomasso said:

Thanks Harry, seems easy enough 🙂.  I am just watching this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWe3A3mZQ_s

What is the role of the FLAi models?

 

You don’t need models, paints etc the program downloads and installs everything for you. I would recommend using the OCI option. You can select as many airlines as you wish and use the bulk download facility.

Hoe that’s helpful, plenty of advice etc on the AIG forum

Regards

G

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Just now, Thomasso said:

Thanks Harry, seems easy enough 🙂.  I am just watching this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWe3A3mZQ_s

What is the role of the FLAi models?

 

You don't need FLAI for the AIG-OCI method. FLAI mainly contains the same models/liveries but no flight plans/traffic files and rather brings confusion and error message (because of same a/c)

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AIG for the aircraft and Radar Contact v4 for ATC. Both free although I made a decent donation to AIG.

As for the person who said there’s no viable ATC program have you any idea how hard it is to write one? 🙄 I’ve been using RC4 for 13 years and it still does a bloody good job.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Thomasso said:

So there is no viable ATC software compatible with that? So how do you know that you can land or takeoff if the ai isn't controlled? How do you avoid an airplane entering the runway when you're on final? 

Hi, 

it doesn't work like that. All traffic is controlled by the simulators AI logic, including collision detection. Most ATC programs don't control AI, not even the default ATC does. All you get is a verbal narration of what the AI logic is doing. There are exceptions (VOXAtc? ProAtc? Don't really know) and there were and are attempts at improving at least certain phases of flight - but nothing RTM yet.

If it is any consolation - there seem to have been some improvement to the AI logic over the years. While there still are many unnecessary go-arounds, runway incursions are pretty rare. I can't remember the last time when it happened to me.

Before the rants start: the AI logic of the simulator concerns itself with every type of simulated object, not only the AI aircraft. That is why it is lacking for example in the air traffic separation department. But it is capable of moving around everything automatically that you throw at it, be it plane, helicopter, car or boat - with just a few lines of code. Making this more aware of air traffic would probably require writing a completely separate simulator module for that purpose. Personally I don't think that is going to happen. It is much more likely that the API is opened further, so it will become possible to properly take control of all AI planes from the outside - and then someone will write a proper software solution for it.

Best regards

Edited by Lorby_SI

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1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

AIG for the aircraft and Radar Contact v4 for ATC. Both free although I made a decent donation to AIG.

As for the person who said there’s no viable ATC program have you any idea how hard it is to write one? 🙄 I’ve been using RC4 for 13 years and it still does a bloody good job.

I have no idea how easy or hard it is to write any software. I’ve been using RC4 probably as long as you have. That’s all totally beside the point I was making which was that no current ATC programme will do what we all want it to do ie control us and the AI correctly, both in the air and on the ground.

Regards

G

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13 minutes ago, Gandalf said:

I have no idea how easy or hard it is to write any software. I’ve been using RC4 probably as long as you have. That’s all totally beside the point I was making which was that no current ATC programme will do what we all want it to do ie control us and the AI correctly, both in the air and on the ground.

Regards

G

That’s because it’s currently impossible because the Ai are directly controlled by the sim. John Dekker did try to control Ai behind your aircraft on approach but eventually the sim won out resulting in the Ai hurtling past you at supersonic speed. That’s how hard it was.

For info, you need to master trigonometry to calculate distances, angles and speed not just for your aircraft but numerous Ai and then to determine if any posed a threat or simply to give them instructions.

I can remember John liaising with a Scottish trig expert and their dialogue confounded me. Given the complexity no wonder there aren’t any that fulfill real world ATC. You need to be a genius.

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AIG is where it’s at.  Don’t waste money on payware AI.

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1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

no current ATC programme will do what we all want it to do ie control us and the AI correctly, both in the air and on the ground.

VOXATC does both.

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2 minutes ago, regis9 said:

AIG is where it’s at.  Don’t waste money on payware AI.

Just a gentle reminder that the AIG servers require funding so whilst no charge is made for the software users should consider making a donation to cover AIG costs.

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2 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

VOXATC does both.

How can it control the Ai within the sim when it’s already been explained that is controlled by the core program?

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2 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

How can it control the Ai within the sim when it’s already been explained that is controlled by the core program?

VOXATC creates its own AI from installed aircraft and bgl-based schedules (I use AIG). That's how it controls and communicates with them. The sim's AI activity level sliders are set to 0% and the default ATC is disabled.

That's the good news other than VOXATC is relatively bug free. Now the bad news. VOXATC hates malformed ADE files. These malformations include orphaned parking spots, overlapping taxi nodes, poorly sized gates, etc.. Certain 3rd party airports are notarious for having sloppy ADE files. Like to edit your airport ADE files? VOXATC is perfect for you.

And now the worse news. Do you fashion yourself as a flightsim "expert"? If so VOXATC is designed just for you because for the past year there has been no official technical support. There is an unofficial support forum here at AVSim though.

 

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@jabloomf1230, thanks for the warts and all explanation. I have made minor corrections to AFCAD files but that’s it. Think I’ll stick with what I know.

Must be frustrating when you buy a product and the support dries up.

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Dont know if its the best but I'm happy with Traffic Global, Orbx AU AI traffic and Proatcx for Atc. Proatcx is getting in need of an update, but after trying most out there I find it quite immersive,particularly if you add your own regional background atc chatter.

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