My next flight will be in MSFS2020

[Wobbie 938]

On 7/12/2019 at 2:45 PM, nas123 said:

The problem with the flighsim from Microsoft is that I have lost all interest in simming in P3D. It just looks outdated and boring, even before MSFS2020 is released.

The first new flight I will be firing up is going to be in MSFS2020.

Is it just me?

LOL, Probably just you..

The rest of us will be playing with Microsoft Flight Simulator!

[Noodle 626]

15 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

This is exactly the point: to be sure, there might be a release of a new stock sim in 2020 - but it will be another 5-15 years before MS 2020 has the same Level of addon support that FSX Steam and P3D now have.

 

That's a misleading comparison. The only reason FSX has the level of "addon support" it has now is because it hasn't changed in 13 years. By necessity, ALL support is via addons. Why should that be the benchmark for a new (and apparently revolutionary vice evolutionary) iteration of MSFS?

Either way, despite having spent thousands of dollars on FSX addons, I have no desire for backward compatibility. If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've got. I don't want to get what FS11 would've been; I want to get every bit of what's possible now.

[vortex681 806]

26 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

This is exactly the point: to be sure, there might be a release of a new stock sim in 2020 - but it will be another 5-15 years before MS 2020 has the same Level of addon support that FSX Steam and P3D now have.

 

Not necessarily. When FSX was released, there were far fewer developers than there are now. That's why it took so long to get the range of add-ons we currently have. I'm sure there will be an initial phase were developers look at what can be done with the new sim and also gauge the market reaction to it. There's still likely to be at least a year before it's available and, assuming MS releases an SDK for it, I don't see why we'd have to wait too long for third party add-ons.

[anden145 2,285]

On 7/13/2019 at 2:48 PM, Rob_Ainscough said:

It's not the programming/coding that causes the CTD in "almost" all cases, nor the add-ons.  AVSIM has a great document/source for resolving CTDs, 99.9% of the time it's not the add-on and it's not the platform, it's the end user:

Cheers, Rob.

Excellent post, Rob! 

The problem is, that the typical customer always jump to the conclusion, that if something goes wrong, it's never MY fault. It's always the developers fault.

Sometimes I'd really wish, that people would do some basic troubleshooting, before invading the poor developers forum, and charging away at their incompetence. 

Edited July 15, 2019 by 188AHC
Pruned an exceedingly long quote.

[G-RFRY 1,712]

My next Flight will be P3Dv4.5 today, I cant wait that long 

[aleex 551]

2 hours ago, ailchim said:

Last time I checked, Microsoft aren't a not-for-profit organization.  If ATC is worth $59 and weather $79 and MS provide it to the same standard as 3rd party developers, then MS are going to charge you for it.

This is really one of the daftest debates I've seen.  Let's just wait and see.........  I agree the promo shots look great but MS don't have the best recent track record in this field.  Xbox and Game Pass are their focus and that may not play well with serious simming.

Everytime a new gen of games is out, them are sold with new features, and that doesn't mean the company charge users for it. 

Maybe we SHOULD wait for official info and stop posting opinions as facts. Because no one in this forum (or any other) knows anything else than the trailer and 8 screenshots. 

Anyway. last time I played FSX, it had an default ATC that was years away from what we got now on other sims. 

[LHookins 3,103]

3 hours ago, aleex said:

Because no one in this forum (or any other) knows anything else than the trailer and 8 screenshots.

 

1 hour ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

That is NOT fact.

Based on your best guess, what are the chances of having third party study level sims available on release day?  No matter what the third parties are saying publicly. 

It wouldn't surprise me to see at least one PMDG aircraft (for example) available at or shortly after release.

Hook

[Greazer 1,326]

6 minutes ago, LHookins said:

It wouldn't surprise me to see at least one PMDG aircraft (for example) available at or shortly after release.

Hook

Will Only happen if FS2020 is backwards compatible with p3d/FSX aircraft models, which would mean there will be tonnes of aircraft add-ons out of the gate.

[LHookins 3,103]

8 minutes ago, Greazer said:

Will Only happen if FS2020 is backwards compatible with p3d/FSX aircraft models, which would mean there will be tonnes of aircraft add-ons out of the gate.

I am assuming no backwards compatibility.  They have over a year to work on it, and they may have already been working on it for a couple of years.  There is obviously more going on than what you see on the surface.  At this point I can't rule it out.

Hook

[TravelRunner404 596]

25 minutes ago, LHookins said:

Based on your best guess, what are the chances of having third party study level sims available on release day?  No matter what the third parties are saying publicly. 

I am sure that's entirely based on the SDK and the number of users willing to spend money for a "study level" aircraft.  I highly doubt any developer will simply sit on the sidelines out of stubbornness and if they do sit it out, there is ample opportunity for someone to fill in the gap.  Like all things that take time and resource and are centered around capitalism, they take a few brave entrepreneurs and a healthy market.

 

2 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

There are some people here that feel if they purchase a product once (10 years ago) it should be upgraded for free indefinitely even as platforms change.

This is definitely an issue.  Many people think of Flight Sims as one big $60 offering that should include more than is feasible.  People don't want to think of the PMDG/Leonardo/A2A aircraft as a completely separate entity that runs on top of the base sim but that's what it is.  I am not sure what the price should be but as much as people don't like the idea of paying, I feel like a PMDG 737 should basically have an annual fee to be done right.  Honestly, $65 for base aircraft and annual updates at $30-$35 is probably a healthy market.  Sucks I know but I feel that it's unfair as it stands for a healthy developer market, and I don't have all the economics but I know enough about business that I am sure it's frustrating for them that perception and "ownership" dictate things the way they do.  All this makes us all rely more on passion and hobby from developers, which sounds nice but we need a healthier market (easier said than done). 

That being said I also believe that's why a much much stronger base sim will pay huge dividends for the top developers and possibly open the market further.  I have been pretty vocal about the poor ecosystem and the add on fatigue the average simmer feels.  The base access has to be way better to get people in the door in my opinion.  As it stands now you are so add on fatigued and overwhelmed by the time you go to buy the best aircraft on the market you can't see straight and you have your credit card number memorized.

Edited July 15, 2019 by TravelRunner404

[Paraffin 2,197]

1 hour ago, LHookins said:

Based on your best guess, what are the chances of having third party study level sims available on release day?  No matter what the third parties are saying publicly. 

It wouldn't surprise me to see at least one PMDG aircraft (for example) available at or shortly after release.

It would sure surprise me, because MS doesn't need a study-level aircraft to kick off the new project. A small group of default planes made to a reasonable standard; something like the default fleet in XP11 with all the new MFS eye candy to get attention, would be enough to launch the sim. With a promise of more to come. They'll have enough on their plate just to pull that off.

I suppose they could hire an outside developer (not ASOBO because this isn't their bailiwick), and pay them to create a study-level sim. I just can't see MS investing that kind of money when 1) it isn't necessary, and 2) it would have to be done during the Alpha and Beta period. I can't see anyone like PMDG signing on to create a study-level aircraft until the underlying sim is stable, tested, and proven as a platform for that kind of aircraft model. Which could take a while. 

Maybe they'll surprise us. It would certainly be cool if there was a PMDG-level Airbus or Boeing in the initial release. But what we hobbyists want, and what's good business for MS, aren't necessarily the same things. 

Edited July 15, 2019 by Paraffin
typo

[LHookins 3,103]

3 minutes ago, TravelRunner404 said:

I am sure that's entirely based on the SDK and the number of users willing to spend money for a "study level" aircraft.

There is already an SDK or there wouldn't be any aircraft at all.  It may not be ready for wide release, but a major developer will be able to use it no matter what shape it's currently in.  Major developers would be "beta testing" the SDK as well as making new aircraft.

As for the number of users willing to pay, go look at the number of members of the forums for the various study level sims.  PMDG is something over 5000 total with 1400 currently active and they're making money on that number.  A2A is about 15000 total.

Hook

[LHookins 3,103]

1 minute ago, Paraffin said:

MS doesn't need a study-level aircraft to kick off the new project.

Obviously.  But it wouldn't be Microsoft making the aircraft.  It would be PMDG in this case.  Any benefits wouldn't be to Microsoft but to PMDG.

Not that it would benefit me as I don't fly the aircraft that PMDG makes.  

As I said in my original post, I can't rule it out at this point.

Hook

[Greazer 1,326]

27 minutes ago, LHookins said:

I am assuming no backwards compatibility.  They have over a year to work on it, and they may have already been working on it for a couple of years.  There is obviously more going on than what you see on the surface.  At this point I can't rule it out.

Hook

Considering all were blindsided by this new sim, in that scenario it will take a Long, Long time for all new airliner offerings to start appearing. FYI, the NGX was in development since at least the early 2000s. Possibly earlier.

[188AHC 2,138]

4 minutes ago, Greazer said:

Considering all were blindsided by this new sim, in that scenario it will take a Long, Long time for all new airliner offerings to start appearing. FYI, the NGX was in development since at least the early 2000s. Possibly earlier.

And you have proof of this or is this your opinion.