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carbonbasedlifeform

World update and continued need for regional scenery makers

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This is definitely not a criticism of the default regions. Everything looks amazing.

I had no doubt OrbX could make better cities or airports than , but in the discovery series video, isn't it safe to say there's plenty of room for guys like OrbX in MSFS2020 for regions? For example, autogen for the Northern Rockies? The right kind of trees and objects for different regions, etc.
 

Edited by carbonbasedlifeform
Clarification on autogen

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What makes you think they won't have the right autogen for the Northern rockies or anywhere else? 

The AI is creating the autogen and tree types, including shapes, colors, and roofs, from reading satellite images. What is Orbx going to do that's somehow more accurate and how would they place said autogen perfectly onto the base texture the way the AI can? 

None of what we are seeing looks like it relies on old style autogen libraries. It looks like it relies on algorithms to read the underlying data to create a building that uniquely fits the ground ortho. 

I don't think "regions" will be a thing anymore. At least not in online mode. 

Edited by bonchie
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6 minutes ago, bonchie said:

What makes you think they won't have the right autogen for the Northern rockies or anywhere else? 

The AI is creating the autogen and tree types, including shapes, colors, and roofs, from reading satellite images. What is Orbx going to do that's somehow more accurate and how would they place said autogen perfectly onto the base texture the way the AI can? 

None of what we are seeing looks like it relies on old style autogen libraries. It looks like it relies on algorithms to read the underlying data to create a building that uniquely fits the ground ortho. 

I don't think "regions" will be a thing anymore. At least not in online mode. 

That's what I'm trying to say on the other topic. What Orbx can do with their tech and data, MS can do better. The only regard Orbx would shine is placing and modeling custom objects to populate the scenery.

And to do that task, Orbx would have to focus on small portions of sceneries like airports and its surrounding area.  

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I honestly think people like OrbX will be able to excel at upgraded airports and perhaps seaplane base/harbor areas more than anything regional.

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I'm personally curious what Asobo themselves think are the areas that 3rd parties can/will/should be addressing.

I'm assuming aircraft are the big one, but it'd be interesting at some point to hear what Asobo/MS would almost "like" to see 3rd parties tackle.  

They are making an SDK after all.

Edited by irrics

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I very much disagree with the OP. Whilst there may be space for some bits and bobs to be added, I think the base sim is so stunning that people would be very unlikely to pay more for slight improvements, at least nowhere near current orbx prices. I thought airports would be the obvious area for them, but even that might be a bit iffy. Maybe there will be something they can do in the offline mode perhaps, but the azure element of the scenery generation tech seems far beyond what anyone other than other big development studios could hope to achieve?

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21 minutes ago, irrics said:

I'm personally curious what Asobo themselves think are the areas that 3rd parties can/will/should be addressing.

I'm assuming aircraft are the big one, but it'd be interesting at some point to hear what Asobo/MS would almost "like" to see 3rd parties tackle.  

They are making an SDK after all.

I think aeroplanes are a given. From a few things I picked up from the event a couple of weeks ago I think it seems they are expecting other people to build things to ‘do’ in the sim - so a lot of the living world type stuff I think, and maybe the next gen versions of things like FSEconomy etc. 

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Well even if they do, I sure as hell wont be buying them. I am done with that. What I am seeing is sufficient for me which by the way is already miles ahead of what we have in p3d or xplane. Only way they can enhance the current scenery is by making state of the art next gen airports where you can actually walk inside the terminal buildings. Now that is something worth spending money on.

Edited by Baber20
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8 minutes ago, aleex said:

Now I wonder how often bing 3D data is updated... and expanded.

Maybe someone can look into how often Bing Map has been updated during 2018-2019. That should give us an idea of what can be expected in the years to come. 

Edited by nas123

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Probably massively varies by region. Where I live (north west UK) it doesn’t seem to have been updated for quite a few years, whereas google seems to update every 6 months or so. 

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I'm pretty anti-add-ons unless they are really needed and I really want my base sim to do as much as possible.


That said...I need to see what some of the more regional and municipal airports actually end up looking like in MSFS release version.  It's still too early to know how complete they will be, but what I saw so far at KRNT isn't enough for me.

 

But-- I'm an enthusiast and real world pilot and use that airport a ton and so I highly value a LOT of detail there (and in many areas of the PNW).  We each will be different and I don't think the mainstream will care like we here might.

That's a long way of saying that I think they'll be a place to extend things for the OrbX's of the world, but it's possible the market size might not actually increase that much for them.  It's just hard to know right now.  Too many unknowns still.

Edited by irrics

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I do enjoy a quality add-on but if this new sim performs anything like promised at launch, I personally will not see the need for Orbx land classes. Airport add-ons is another story... I will certainly continue to support Orbx and other 3rd party developers who make great airport add-ons if they bring their products (old and new) to the new sim.

I am very curious to see what is possible in this new sim from the 3rd party dev community.

 

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30 minutes ago, CaribbeanCLANK said:

I do enjoy a quality add-on but if this new sim performs anything like promised at launch, I personally will not see the need for Orbx land classes. Airport add-ons is another story... I will certainly continue to support Orbx and other 3rd party developers who make great airport add-ons if they bring their products (old and new) to the new sim.

I am very curious to see what is possible in this new sim from the 3rd party dev community.

 

Given the MS/ASOBO team acting quite openly and meaningful so far, I can imagine they will show at least to the main devlopers where there will be a place for them, and give them tools in the form of a preliminary SDK to begin working. I read at least from a few well-known developers like Aerosoft's Mathijs Kok they are positively looking forward towards the new sim.

Kind regards, Michael

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If I remember correctly, early on when we first saw the announcement video and the entire flight sim world erupted, ORBX didn't seem much enthused and kinda turned their noses up at it.

Think about it, they have invested a lot of time and money into True Earth. That was going to be the next wave of terrain technology that everybody would want to fill their simulators (and hard drives) up with. Something they probably expected only to expand upon in the years to come. Not only that, they have people who do Cityscapes.

Now a new simulator is previewed that will render the entire world with satellite data, every city, every road. Kinda right there in an instant made a good chunk of ORBX's business plan irrelevant. But we don't know for sure just yet, there may always be room for improvements. 

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If you think i will be buying region limited scenery updates for 50$+ which will ruin my performance you are wrong. With the scenery I saw so far I will never need any more addon scenery but probably airports. 

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4 hours ago, carbonbasedlifeform said:

This is definitely not a criticism of the default regions. Everything looks amazing.

I had no doubt OrbX could make better cities or airports than , but in the discovery series video, isn't it safe to say there's plenty of room for guys like OrbX in MSFS2020 for regions? For example, autogen for the Northern Rockies? The right kind of trees and objects for different regions, etc.
 

 

Rather than retype a reply to another question like this, I just quoted it below. 

Baiscally they’ve identified everything in the world and Azure will identity 1.5 trillion trees and other objects to create them. 

Based on the bullet points in my post below, I frankly don’t see addon scenery developers having a lot of work ahead of them considering what MS is pulling off in this new sim.

 

38 minutes ago, cmpbellsjc said:

That’s not what they said in the video, all cities on earth, all airports on earth, all roads on earth and all mountains on earth. See the screen shots of the bullet points. Azure is going to generate and detect all tress in the world, etc, etc.

Based on the two screen shots of bullet points for what they have and what they will generate using Azure, I don’t think there will be a whole lot of scenery development needed by 3rd party, unless it’s for even more detailed airports or very specific scenery items.

 

A19FAB06-018F-4EE9-9D07-1A49E7B8019D.png

33BF79F3-626B-4500-ABDC-1810F88C83B8.png

 

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I think Orbx will go back to it's roots. Developing high detailed smaller airports. 

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3 hours ago, pmb said:

Given the MS/ASOBO team acting quite openly and meaningful so far, I can imagine they will show at least to the main devlopers where there will be a place for them, and give them tools in the form of a preliminary SDK to begin working. I read at least from a few well-known developers like Aerosoft's Mathijs Kok they are positively looking forward towards the new sim.

Kind regards, Michael

I have been pleasantly surprised at how open and transparent Microsoft has been so far. The team working on the new Age of Empires could learn a thing or two from the MSFS team when it comes to dev/community relations.  Also, they seem very keen on involving the community (simmers and developers). 

If all goes well, I am sure ORBX and many others can find a place to thrive moving forward.

 

1 hour ago, PWJT8D said:

If I remember correctly, early on when we first saw the announcement video and the entire flight sim world erupted, ORBX didn't seem much enthused and kinda turned their noses up at it.

Think about it, they have invested a lot of time and money into True Earth. That was going to be the next wave of terrain technology that everybody would want to fill their simulators (and hard drives) up with. Something they probably expected only to expand upon in the years to come. Not only that, they have people who do Cityscapes.

Now a new simulator is previewed that will render the entire world with satellite data, every city, every road. Kinda right there in an instant made a good chunk of ORBX's business plan irrelevant. But we don't know for sure just yet, there may always be room for improvements. 

I thought about it a bit more and maybe things might not be so grim for ORBX and some of it's products. 

I currently live on a small island in the Caribbean... the Commonwealth of Dominica... heard of it? Most haven't and many think it is the Dominican Republic. Anyways, all these petabytes of data still may not benefit certain parts of the Caribbean like it will a city like London or a region like southern California. Some regions will be represented with stunning accuracy while others will not be as detailed simply because of the amount of data available. Just looking at bing maps I can see that the imagery is from before the events of hurricane Maria in 2017. 

After a natural disaster of that magnitude, it is not just man made landmarks that have changed, natural ones like rivers and sections of coastlines have also been altered. And trees.... a lot less trees. 

Just some fuel for thought. I can't complain because if this sim works the way they say it will, the default scenery of the Caribbean in the new MSFS will be light years better than default scenery (even some add-ons) on the market now, but maybe certain parts of the world (like Dominica) might need that special touch that the talented folks at various 3rd party dev teams can provide. 

We will just have to wait and see 

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Just now, CaribbeanCLANK said:

....After a natural disaster of that magnitude, it is not just man made landmarks that have changed, natural ones like rivers and sections of coastlines have also been altered. And trees.... a lot less trees.

As flight simmers we are used to having the weigh the pros and cons. Your point falls into the cons category. Having satellite terrain data for sure is the best thing to happen for us but than also going that route there will be a delay on how updated that data is. Google Maps hasn't updated the imagery of my house in 3 or so years.

But the good news is the developers said that our world will be changing and evolving as the satellite imagery is updated. So there is hope that in such cases of a natural disaster that at some point we should see it reflected in the sim.

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The Orbx prices just for one region or state are totally exorbitant.  I hope the developers are listening.  They need to get why XP was successful getting about 15,000 3d airports into the sim. It's because they built the tools and process for the community to build the airports out for them. It's totally brilliant. Once uploaded the airports are reviewed and become part of the sim.  This should happen with FS2020. Make the tool to tweak and override the default autogen and a process for them to be reviewed.  You will see before long everywhere will have detailed and more accurate autogen and we will not have to pay crazy ridiculous prices for it.

Greazer.

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