What was wrong with the PMDG DC6 in XPlane?

On ‎11‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 8:38 PM, viz said:

If I remember rightly, Microsoft said visits to Asobo could be arranged for those with burning unanswered questions. The post above states that the decision to switch direction was made many months back so it's possible they just took up the opportunity to visit the studio directly, without necessarily needing open access to builds and SDKs.

That is a most astute and rational view, and one which I, sadly, did not think of. I vaguely recall reading somewhere that at least one from the PMDG team did just visit ASOBO, and discovered that they aren't simply a "smoke and mirrors" studio, but indeed have a solid and progressive development in reality...

13 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

It is interesting that PMDG have decided to concentrate on the new MFS in the future. I am not sure how much inside knowledge they have of P3D development, but does this give an indication that they do not consider P3D v5 to be worth their investment? In other words, not up to the same level of quality as the new MFS?

It could simply be a business bet.  MSFS is a consumer product with, you'd assume, consumer pricing.  It'll also have Microsoft's marketing throw weight behind it.  So chances are it'll generate much higher sales volume than a professional niche product like P3D v5 that doesn't get marketed except to hardcore users.  Randazzo said in his announcement post that PMDG wanted to streamline production by focusing on a single platform. That makes all kinds of sense in terms of development costs, support costs and time to market.  Taking all that into account, a businessperson might decide to sacrifice revenue from P3D v5 in order to realize a better upside in MSFS.  Which means the decision isn't necessarily about the quality of P3D v5 - it might be a fantastic product, maybe better than MSFS in important respects, but it might still not fit the business case.  Businesses close down product lines all the time for reasons like this - even healthy product lines that have loyal customers - because their overall plan points somewhere else.

Edited November 9, 20196 yr by Alan_A

4 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

What was wrong with the PMDG DC6 in XPlane?

It was built for XP10 and wasn't revised for XP11.  So apparently there are problems with gauges and sound.  It's useable but with compromises.

The decision not to revise it wasn't one of their better moves.  They said that they'd only marketed it for XP10, which is true, strictly speaking.  But it appeared late in the XP10 development cycle, and it was reasonable for users to expect that there'd be an XP11 revision.  A lot of developers carry their add-ons across two XP versions.

PMDG tried to say that it had just been a test project - which again was strictly true, but then again they charged a premium price for it by XP standards.

To my point above - the decision not to revise it probably had to do with low sales and the demand for resources on other projects, and in retrospect it points the way to their decision to give up on XP altogether.

One major correction - according to Randazzo's latest announcement, development will continue for P3D v4. 
 

Quote

 

WHAT PLATFORMS DOES PMDG SUPPORT:

1. Moving forward, PMDG is developing products in both Prepar3D v4 and the upcoming Microsoft Flight Simulator.
2. We are no longer advancing our products on x86 (32bit) platforms such as FSX, P3D v3.
3. We are no longer planning to explore development on XPlane.

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN NG3 and NGXu?

We have confused folks a bit with naming conventions, which is understandable- so here is some clarification:

• P3Dv4 and MSFS development are two very very different animals, with very very different capabilities.
• P3Dv4 and MSFS are two different simulation platforms.
• PMDG 737NGu is the P3Dv4 generational replacement to the 8.5 year old NGX.
• PMDG 737NG3 (based upon the same work) will be the MSFS version of our replacement for NGX

To put it slightly differently, NGXu and NG3 are the same core airplane delivered on different platforms. We are branding them differently because they are different platforms, different products and will have vastly different qualities due to their target platforms.

A year from now when both are on the market simultaneously, you will thank us for giving them different names.

 

So it's not a complete pivot away from P3D - only from the 32-bit versions (and from X-Plane).

The 737NGu will continue as the P3D v4 version.

The 737NG3 will be the MSFS version.

Further down the thread, in response to a question about P3D v5, he says:

Quote

You are asking me if we are going to develop products for a platform that has not been announced. So the answer to that question is: How the h**l do I know?

When that platform is announced and we have an opportunity to evaluate it for the purposes of our business model, we will make a decision.

So P3D v5 development is possible, assuming that there is such a thing as P3D v5.

The main Avsim reaction to this latest was a new outcry, this time about NG3 pricing.  Some of these details seem to have gotten lost in the shuffle - I lost track of them myself and have been misstating that PMDG will be single-platform in future. Not so.  Therefore - corrected for the record.

5 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

What was wrong with the PMDG DC6 in XPlane?

I guess this was asked after my posts regarding PMDG's "effort" at XP. Alan touched up on the crucial points, but to put it bluntly XP has never been a focus of theirs and it came across in the DC-6. It was a half-as(you know what) effort which became a half-a---- product, it's a simple as that. The plane itself at face value is worth maybe $5, if anything they should have paid people to use it. But the point of my post wasn't to bash PMDG.  I was mainly saying that most of us in the XP community figured they had already stopped development years ago. That's why I threw in the comparison to that QB announcing his retirement.

I was expressing my support for them shifting their main focus to MSFS. I used to use FSX/P3D and know what they're capable of. I also know what they're capable of when they just don't give a da... about a project as well.... it's not pretty and it shows. So, the fact that there will be a serious focus and effort on MSFS is something I will look forward to based on that.

On 11/8/2019 at 7:39 PM, Alan_A said:

  A number of us have talked about how we're reluctant to invest in P3D products with the new sim coming down the pike, and suggested that it'd be good to know what the path forward looks like.  PMDG is the first developer to show us that. 

Precisely

On 11/9/2019 at 10:08 PM, Alan_A said:

To put it slightly differently, NGXu and NG3 are the same core airplane delivered on different platforms. We are branding them differently because they are different platforms, different products and will have vastly different qualities due to their target platforms.

I wonder what that means... if it is a study level addon, shouldn't it be the same on all platforms? Will MSFS users study on a different level than P3D users do?

Best regards

Edited November 11, 20196 yr by Lorby_SI

8 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

I wonder what that means... if it is a study level addon, shouldn't it be the same on all platforms? Will MSFS users study on a different level than P3D users do?

Best regards

They'll be studying on a different platform.

Put another way, a textbook delivered in print and the same textbook delivered digitally might be different because the digital version can take advantage of the platform it's on to deliver videos, animations, etc. That doesn't mean they cheated the people with the physical book - just that they're taking advantage of the higher-level platform for the digital guys.

I imagine PMDG intends to take advantage of capabilities that FS2020 will have which p3d cannot match.

 

17 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

I wonder what that means... if it is a study level addon, shouldn't it be the same on all platforms? Will MSFS users study on a different level than P3D users do?

Best regards

Why ? The general idea of having a new sim is to get "vastly" improved "qualities" in aircraft too, not only in sceneries.  I imagine that the plane will fly more realistically in the FS20 1000-point FDE and airflow system (turbulences etc) than it does in P3D and that it will integrate the icing (visual apparence and consequences)  we've seen on the TBM etc. The forthcoming EP3 should give us some hints in this regard.

It would be great if they said they would offer free upgrades thru P3D v5.

It appears to me that the latest episode on aerodynamics was delayed slightly and this probably has something  to do with that.  Maybe it wasnt delayed but it does appear that MS and PMDG have been coordinating on flight models and such.

Asobo already stated that FSX models could be made to work in the new FS so I would bet that PMDG will eventually provide upgrades for their existing P3D aircraft to make them work in FS.  I suspect there are significant rewrites they have to do considering the new sims graphics and icing and VC rain and flight model advances...probably a whole lot going on under the hood that I have no idea about.

I really think P3D wont be a choice many will make in the coming years.

MS's posts last Thursday made me think we would be hearing from 3rd party developers and Im still waiting for more words from more of them.  I just want a bigger picture.  Is the $140 price tag due to an MS cut?  Will other developers have similar price points?  Im willing to pay about $70 but thats about it.

1 hour ago, domkle said:

Why ?

Because it works the other way around too. "Cover your behind" is a mantra that every project manager is taught when taking the PMI certification. The sentence from the PMDG text could also be read as A: don't complain that both products will be sold at full price once the limited upgrade offer expires, and B: don't complain if it is not possible to implement all features in both products to an equal standard. And that works both ways, there is no reason to believe that MSFS will do everything better. It is entirely possible that there will be features missing that were/are common in P3D.

Best regards

Edited November 11, 20196 yr by Lorby_SI

6 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

Because it works the other way around too. "Cover your behind" i/.../ there is no reason to believe that MSFS will do everything better. It is entirely possible that there will be features missing that were/are common in P3D.

 

It makes sense.