alpha testers are becoming more vocal

[DylanM 1,069]

He sounds like a know-it-all "guru" trying to get clicks for his YouTube link...

Edited May 16, 2020 by DylanM

[Superdelphinus 718]

8 hours ago, Claviateur said:

It's funny that the word "game" was always used in the global flight sim community almost as a curse to disqualify this or that flight sim...

Of course as we could expect, the user who posted the comments for that Youtube video, thought using the word/curse "game" as well to make his point... 

However, as you might know, it seems there is this trend on Youtube these days, as far as I could see, where many real world pilots (civilian and fighter pilots) spend some time in the flight simulators we all know  (civilian and military) to compare them to their daily job...

All those aviation professionals, at least the ones I saw, call every flight simulator we know "a game" no matter how much good and positive feedback they usually give regarding the global experience and details in these PC simulators...

And sometimes they even underline the fact that yes, these are "games" especially when they receive frustrated comments and feedback from fans who are obviously not real aviators...

I hope this social media phenomenon and evidence from the professional world of aviation will make the word "game" fairly accepted. Hopefully it will stop being used as an insult to any PC simulator we like to enjoy to simply pretend we are flying...

 

I believe it is already accepted by anyone under the age of ~40 or so

[tweekz 2,165]

22 hours ago, Murmur said:

Depends on how you see it: let's say flight model is the SECOND most important thing after the overall sensory experience (eyes+ears).

If forced to choose between a sim that looks and sounds like MSFS but with an arcade flight model, and a sim that looks and sounds like Sublogic FS but with a 100% accurate flight model, I would probably get more immersion using the first. I'd leave the accurate, Sublogic FS-looking sim to you. 🤣

 

Agreed. But I think you cannot put those things in a definite order anyway.

Even for practising real world flying, I find it more valuable to have a good scenery depiction, to practise my real world flights in the sim. Practising flying in the sim is rather counterproductive as some things are just lacking (sense of motion) and others are not depicted realistically. Recently I've seen Steveo1 fly the TBM on X-Plane and during takeoff, he mentioned something like "oh well, little problem with the rudders, that's just a sim thing".

On the other hand, if I had to choose between a sim that does look slightly better but has a much worse flight model, I'd go with the better flight model.

[Wewk584 137]

Ultimately, unless sims plug directly into our brains , they are never going to feel like rw flying. The best we can do is make the world look like ... the actual world (im not sure why someone would call an accurate image of the world 'pretty graphics') .. and make the plane fly as realistic as possible.

Strange that asobo would split the plane into 1000 surfaces and all the other changes they made to the weather model with respect to aerodymamics  just to say they did it? T mean, I can see the MFS flight model not being perfect at this point or even at release.. xplane's isnt either (and 'experimental mode' is incompatible with so many planes im not even sure i can count it) and austin is always rethinking things  .. but i will give Asobo time because they are taking all the steps to make it as real as possible. 

But yeah.. for me to.. I wouldn't want a plane a baby could land with a beautiful world ... nor a perfect flight model with a world w/desert and forrests where cities should be. really  its the combination that comes closest to reality  is what i want. (I dont  need to put them in order)

 

 

[Krakin 5,760]

On 5/16/2020 at 10:22 AM, ChaoticBeauty said:

Thanks for the information. Did he say why he lost access to the Alpha? I'm wondering if he was kicked for misbehaving in the official forums or breaking the NDA, or if he was retired along with others to make room for new testers.

Or if he's just lying

[LHookins 3,103]

41 minutes ago, Krakin said:

Or if he's just lying

We've dealt with enough haters lying that the pattern for that is recognizable.  I suspect everything he wrote was true, at least in his own perception.  That doesn't mean that he was right. 🙂 

I mean, bugs and CTDs?  Well, yeah... it's an alpha after all. 😄 

Bad flight model?  I doubt he'd recognize a good one.

Long download time?  Get used to the idea.

It was probably all his honest opinion, but obviously take it with a grain of salt.  Nothing he wrote influences my opinions.

Hook

[Claviateur 789]

During my lunch break here I googled MSFS and started to browse the images that are usually familiar, from the Updates.

However, I found these. I don't remember seeing them in any update?

Is this gif from that infamous leaked video??

Edited May 19, 2020 by Claviateur

[Shack95 2,658]

They look like leaks if you ask me.

Edited May 19, 2020 by Shack95

[Claviateur 789]

14 minutes ago, Shack95 said:

They look like leaks if you ask me.

Yes I don't think they were part of any update but I wanted to verify... The animated gif seems clearly as if it comes from some user 

[trainplane3 97]

41 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

During my lunch break here I googled MSFS and started to browse the images that are usually familiar, from the Updates.

However, I found these. I don't remember seeing them in any update?

Is this gif from that infamous leaked video??

All leaks.

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

The second screenshot appears to be one from those horribly compressed images that were posted on an Imgur album, and the GIF is from that infamous leak indeed. The first one I haven't seen before.

EDIT: I tracked that first screenshot to a post made in February in another forum, just someone announcing that they were invited (they also posted a screenshot of the invite e-mail).

Edited May 19, 2020 by ChaoticBeauty

[kovatSS 28]

If you don't know that something isn't a leak, don't post it on a public forum.

[Claviateur 789]

21 minutes ago, kovatSS said:

If you don't know that something isn't a leak, don't post it on a public forum.

Yes. But I could not edit the post anymore to delete them so please, admins feel free to remove them...

[KenG 492]

On 5/16/2020 at 8:44 AM, Claviateur said:

It's funny that the word "game" was always used in the global flight sim community almost as a curse to disqualify this or that flight sim...

Of course as we could expect, the user who posted the comments for that Youtube video, thought using the word/curse "game" as well to make his point... 

However, as you might know, it seems there is this trend on Youtube these days, as far as I could see, where many real world pilots (civilian and fighter pilots) spend some time in the flight simulators we all know  (civilian and military) to compare them to their daily job...

All those aviation professionals, at least the ones I saw, call every flight simulator we know "a game" no matter how much good and positive feedback they usually give regarding the global experience and details in these PC simulators...

And sometimes they even underline the fact that yes, these are "games" especially when they receive frustrated comments and feedback from fans who are obviously not real aviators...

I hope this social media phenomenon and evidence from the professional world of aviation will make the word "game" fairly accepted. Hopefully it will stop being used as an insult to any PC simulator we like to enjoy to simply pretend we are flying...

 

 You can't expect professional aviation to change, you will have to "own your game." I am not sure the following make sense, but I try to dig into the mentality of most pilots as a 30 year career professional pilot and 20 year Instructor. I meant this to be supportive of your position, I hope it comes across that way.

 

For those of us who are professional instructors sitting in the back of multimillion dollar Full Flight Simulators (FFS) there is definitely a difference between the software and hardware combination ran on a server farm that is used to train real world pilots and the hobby level desktop simulation platforms put together and used by amatures.

The difference is one is certified by a regulating agency to meet a minimum standard and the other is not.

I am very careful to not use the g-word when I talk about the non-certified stuff, because I understand that there are many who become violently offended that I just degraded their favorite software by classifying the product made by an entertainment company as *gasp* a game. 

The reality is these games have become really good at what they do and in certain cases, the exact same software that is used on the game platform can also be certified for real flight training. Both P3D (which was based on FSX) and Xplane Professional can be used as the software to run an Aviation Training Device. However, once transformed into an ATD these devices have to be maintained strictly how shipped and updated by the manufacturer. i.e. You are NOT allowed to installed PMDG or Zibo 737 onto a ATD and continue to train as doing such violates the letter of certification.

To move back to the professional pilot's viewpoint anything that is not a real airplane is of lesser substance. Even the FFS are limited devices, good for their purpose of training procedures and running emergencies but of little value for actual flight training. They are often referred to as the box or the sim in an almost the same derogatory way.  They are a passage of right that real pilots must endure along the path of getting into the airplane they want to fly. 

So pilots will generally always look down on the pixilated simulation of flight. If the multimillion dollar devices are already an annoyance to many pilots what do you think they will refer to a $50 piece of software run on a gaming computer? Not to mention MSFS being advertised for a gaming console? 

The reality is pilots are a bunch of type A guys and gals who speak with little regards to someone's feelings. From the start of their pilot career their every action and word was critiqued bluntly. All pilot's have to have a thick skin to survive training as most briefings focus not on what you did right, but what you screwed up and could have done better. The reality of flight training is it is not for the sensitive. When the pilot becomes an Instructor the direct communication becomes reinforced.  It was not until I started instructing for a major civilian training corporation that I was sent to charm school. 

Don't expect the professional pilots to change. They have had a career of reinforcing their behavior. The trick is to not accept the term "game" as derogatory. I own the term "sim" or "box" in my career. I don't care of the pilot's feelings of the device, it is a tool I use to get the job done. The FFS does not fly exactly like the real airplane, there are bugs in the systems simulation, the autopilot is not perfect, and the avionics can throw some oddballs at time. It is NOT a 100% simulation of flight, it is a close enough facsimile. 

Flight Simulation Game will become accepted when the people who embrace the software, own it's game status. Yeah, it's a game, so what. It suits the purpose for what I purchased it for and is good. $50 of software, a $4000 PC, and $500 of controls and I have a respectable facsimile that can even rival some Level 4 FSTDs. 

[Claviateur 789]

7 hours ago, KenG said:

For those of us who are professional instructors sitting in the back of multimillion dollar Full Flight Simulators (FFS) there is definitely a difference between the software and hardware combination ran on a server farm that is used to train real world pilots and the hobby level desktop simulation platforms put together and used by amatures.

Agree 100% 🙂

Edited May 20, 2020 by n4gix
Remove rediculously long quote! Again!