1 minute ago, shivers9 said:

Thank you! That is one of the best and most honest bits of information since this whole Goat Rope started. It goes a long way in explaining some of the stuff we have had to read through and where this all is at this point of the game.

To be honest, I don't know what this really means. That the most important part of the whole testing was to see how using an xbox controller would work. If that is true I would be a bit worried. However, it's all shadows and smoke for me right now. Asobo have hardly mentioned the xbox version at all in their videos and adresses, and the sim seems so innovative that I find it a bit hard to believe that it all boils down to a simple xbox controller. I must misunderstand you guys. 

I've noticed a LOT of people put down a persons flight skill. This disheartens me because I'm not a pilot, never flown an actual plane, just can't afford something like that. Simulators are my savior as it were, without them 'I' would not get to fly, to imagine I can take a trip around the world and visit exotic places. I am sure those same people would chastise my piloting skills, they are sloppy and I often over correct, ect. 

This doesn't mean I'm not trying my best or not taking it 'seriously'. MSFS2020 could breath new life into the sim hobby and spark that flame for new real world pilots.

Try and remember that for those it pertains to.

Thats my 2 cents. 

6 minutes ago, Andreas Stangenes said:

To be honest, I don't know what this really means. That the most important part of the whole testing was to see how using an xbox controller would work. If that is true I would be a bit worried. However, it's all shadows and smoke for me right now. Asobo have hardly mentioned the xbox version at all in their videos and adresses, and the sim seems so innovative that I find it a bit hard to believe that it all boils down to a simple xbox controller. I must misunderstand you guys. 

Just simple math. MS is all in with the new x box stuff. They don't talk that much in the alpha because they don't want you talking about it. I expect after x box is launch is when we will see a lot of changes for the so called "simmers" There is a lot more quick cash in the x box world and they would be stupid to not go for that cash first

Edited August 11, 20205 yr by shivers9

1 minute ago, shivers9 said:

Just simple math. MS is all in with the new x box stuff. They don't talk that much in the alpha because they don't want you talking about it. I expect after x box is launch is when we will see a lot of changes for the so called "simmers" There is a lot more quick cash in the x box world and they would be stupid to not go for that cash first

The X-box version is not going to impact how the sim works for you on your PC. You're panicking.

9 minutes ago, Lotharen said:

I've noticed a LOT of people put down a persons flight skill. This disheartens me because I'm not a pilot, never flown an actual plane, just can't afford something like that. Simulators are my savior as it were, without them 'I' would not get to fly, to imagine I can take a trip around the world and visit exotic places. I am sure those same people would chastise my piloting skills, they are sloppy and I often over correct, ect. 

This doesn't mean I'm not trying my best or not taking it 'seriously'. MSFS2020 could breath new life into the sim hobby and spark that flame for new real world pilots.

Try and remember that for those it pertains to.

Thats my 2 cents. 

I have been a pilot since 1962.What you do is exactly what the sim was designed for. A learning tool for those who want to fly. But it has also been set up as an enjoyable sightseeing game. The complaints you read are from people who post videos to show how good MSFS2020 is and are flopping all over the sky like a dead fish AND they don't really care.

So, take your time, try to learn and if you post a video with the caveat that you are learning to fly, I guarantee you will get more help than complaints.

Enjoy - 

 

Vic

8 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

Thank you! That is one of the best and most honest bits of information since this whole Goat Rope started. It goes a long way in explaining some of the stuff we have had to read through and where this all is at this point of the game.

 

4 minutes ago, Andreas Stangenes said:

To be honest, I don't know what this really means. That the most important part of the whole testing was to see how using an xbox controller would work. If that is true I would be a bit worried. However, it's all shadows and smoke for me right now. Asobo have hardly mentioned the xbox version at all in their videos and adresses, and the sim seems so innovative that I find it a bit hard to believe that it all boils down to a simple xbox controller. I must misunderstand you guys. 

It's not just relevant for further development towards the Xbox release, but also for VR. 2020 already has been a huge year for VR sales, and towards the next holiday season, this will increase even further with titles like Star Wars: Squadrons and also Flight Simulator.

I don't know if any particular VR hardware is planned for the new Xbox console, but I wouldn't be surprised. The central thing is they need a UI that allows you to use it without relying on keyboard and mouse.

I mean, you can already see the way the menu system and UI is structured in all of the preview videos, and everyone who knows modern gaming titles immediately recognizes this is heavily optimized for controller use. I expect this will make a lot of people here in this forum pull their hair out because in some cases, you simply need a few more mouse clicks than you're used to. But in my eyes, if they pull this off, getting a complex flight simulation title to the gaming console masses while simultaneously reinvigorating the PC sim market, this would be a remarkable achievement.

9 minutes ago, Slides said:

The X-box version is not going to impact how the sim works for you on your PC. You're panicking.

You miss my point. It is not at all about what goes on my PC. That will all be made sometime in the future. My comment is simply about how this hold thing will get rolled out. Not negative at all.

Sure, I am able to identify UI menus that have been optimized for a game controller in a pc game. Most of the time these are ported games from consoles to pc, and the UI are increadibly clunky (ie. several more clicks to get things done than what is usual for a pc optimized game). However, that is not pronounced in the menu system available for everyone to see. I can see how you would manouver with a controller in the menu system, but it doesn't really seem to be detrimental to pc gamers.

So if that is all you mean, that they were very interested in testing out trying to make a universal menu system that works both on pc and on a xbox controller - sure I can understand that. I don't buy, though, that it was the pinnacle of the entire testing period. 

I feel that we need to really watch this video again, people, and really just take in what is being said. I have put the video to a core part of the panel talk, but we should watch the whole thing:

 

1 minute ago, Andreas Stangenes said:

So if that is all you mean, that they were very interested in testing out trying to make a universal menu system that works both on pc and on a xbox controller - sure I can understand that. I don't buy, though, that it was the pinnacle of the entire testing period. 

Ok, this was a misunderstanding then. It was one important area they are obviously interested in, but not the central or most important one.

There really is no need to worry about the UI, it works mostly fine. There is one very particular point that everyone will immediately notice within half an hour of using the sim, where I first didn't understand why it was designed that way, but that makes total sense in the context of controller use. But it's not bad, and everyone will get used to it.

1 minute ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

Ok, this was a misunderstanding then. It was one important area they are obviously interested in, but not the central or most important one.

There really is no need to worry about the UI, it works mostly fine. There is one very particular point that everyone will immediately notice within half an hour of using the sim, where I first didn't understand why it was designed that way, but that makes total sense in the context of controller use. But it's not bad, and everyone will get used to it.

Thank you for clearing that up ❤️

2 hours ago, LHookins said:

It is perfectly acceptable to stick with whatever sim you are currently using.  In fact, there will be advantages to doing that.

They're making a sim tailored to the first time flight simmer.  Some of their design decisions won't be popular with the hard core simming crowd.  

If an improved ATC is that important, someone will make it and sell it as DLC.  

Hook

I guess a lot of people in the serious simmer community hoped that the times of having to stuff the base sim full of add-ons to achieve an acceptable level of reality are now finally over. And yet again they aren't.

And ATC has always been the biggest issue in this. We have been talking about this with each new version of P3D and it never gets touched, and here comes a new team with a chance of getting it finally right, and again they decide not to for increased accesability and leave it to 3rd Party developers and Vatsim to get ATC right.

But how are newbies supposed to learn how it really works if the default ATC is teaching them all the wrong things and are not taking into accord regional differences.

How are Russian and Chinese simmers be able to learn about proper ATC procedures when the sim's ATC does not know about QRE and the metric system?

Edited August 11, 20205 yr by Farlis

5 minutes ago, Farlis said:

I guess a lot of people in the serious simmer community hoped that the times of having to stuff the base sim full of add-ons to achieve an acceptable level of reality are now finally over. And yet again they aren't.

And ATC has always been the biggest issue in this. We have been talking about this with each new version of P3D and it never gets touched, and here comes a new team with a chance of getting it finally right, and again they decide not to for increased accesability and leave it to 3rd Party developers and Vatsim to get ATC right.

But how are newbies supposed to learn how it really works if the default ATC is teaching them all the wrong things and are not taking into accord regional differences.

How are Russian and Chinese simmers be able to learn about proper ATC procedures when the sim's ATC does not know about QRE and the metric system?

MSFS is not a replacement for flight and ground school. Never was and it's not now. 

1 hour ago, mtr75 said:

Correct, that's what I mean by ATC being very Euro-centric.Which I guess is fine. Decimal vs. point isn't the thrust of my complaint.

 

ATC can't be that Euro-Centric when it uses the U.S. transition altitute globally. I swear if I have to listen to ATC clear me to 12.000 feet one more time while I'm over Europe...

18 minutes ago, Farlis said:

I guess a lot of people in the serious simmer community hoped that the times of having to stuff the base sim full of add-ons to achieve an acceptable level of reality are now finally over. And yet again they aren't.

And ATC has always been the biggest issue in this. We have been talking about this with each new version of P3D and it never gets touched, and here comes a new team with a chance of getting it finally right, and again they decide not to for increased accesability and leave it to 3rd Party developers and Vatsim to get ATC right.

But how are newbies supposed to learn how it really works if the default ATC is teaching them all the wrong things and are not taking into accord regional differences.

How are Russian and Chinese simmers be able to learn about proper ATC procedures when the sim's ATC does not know about QRE and the metric system?

The lacking ATC has not "always been the biggest issue" in regards to achieving acceptable level of reality in the sims. I have used the in-sim atc system in fsx, p3d and xp11 a total of 1 time - combined. Yet, I paid over a 100 bucks for a single study level aircraft because it was "as real as it gets". 

High fidelity in a flight simulator is really tough to achieve because it basically could potentially mean simulating the whole world. How granular do you wanna get when judging how the sim compares to real life? I do agree with you that the atc system that is in game now really does not look appetizing. In fact, I know for sure that if it doesn't change they might just as well leave the whole thing out of the sim because I'm never gonna use it. But thankfully the sim achieves innovation on so many other fronts, and I'm totally fine with Asobo focusing their efforts on parts of the sim that cannot easily be outsourced to a 3rd party market - and that is the sim engine itself. The platform. The SDK. If those are lackluster then it will act as a break on innovation going forward. It is not what Asobo wants as far as I can tell. We as a sim community, are much better off buying a better ATC system from a 3rd party that will integrate with a wonderful flight sim, than having a flight sim where the ATC is better, but other core features are lackluster because a fix for that cannot easily be purchased in the sim market. 

Edited August 11, 20205 yr by Andreas Stangenes