31 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

Yes, and that's fine.

But I'm really growing tired of that point that pops up all the time around here that some testers shouldn't have been picked because they apparently don't know how to fly an airplane. I would argue that this group is precisely the one that Asobo tries to get as buyers. So their experience in testing the sim is at least as important than that of real-world pilots.

And my response would be, you could correct all of the ATC and other aviation-related errors in the sim and they wouldn't know the difference. They would still have the same level of enjoyment, because they don't know that the instruction "Continue for west departure" has never and will never be issued by an ATC facility. But real pilots would enjoy the sim more.

So there really are no conflicting interests.

5 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

People here will simply need to accept that MSFS is not and does not try to be a replacement for P3D or XPlane, at least not out of the box.

What? Not even P3D or X-plane out of the box would replace P3D/X-plane with a lot of add-ons. 

Of course they want to replace the current sims. They’ve been announcing it as “the best flight simulator”. 

Well, it already is the best flight simulator to me. But different people will have different needs.

2 minutes ago, mtr75 said:

And my response would be, you could correct all of the ATC and other aviation-related errors in the sim and they wouldn't know the difference. They would still have the same level of enjoyment, because they don't know that the instruction "Continue for west departure" has never and will never be issued by an ATC facility. But real pilots would enjoy the sim more.

So there really are no conflicting interests.

Atc is a work in progress. Just look at their last feedback snapshot.

I started with flightsimming well over 20 years ago, and I think I have used the default atc system like... once maybe?

As long as I'm not forced to use the default atc system I won't really care if it's bad. I just continue without it. If its really good, then great. I might implement it in my routines when flying offline. 

It's clear to me it's a marketing strategy to gift the YouTubers a Build to help promote the Sim, judging by the sheer numbers of views it's a strategy that's paid off!

 

Personally i have no issues on that whatsoever, whether any of them can or cannot fly a plane correctly is neither here nor there.

11 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

Looking at all the marketing, the priorities in the testing program, the things that Asobo was interested about concerning the experiences of us testers, the questions they asked, all of that, there is one major priority for the developers that is a really big point, and that is accessibility.

That was their goal with Flight as well, and look at how that turned out.

12 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

So if anyone is looking at preview videos right now and is getting worked up about how the ATC uses certain phrases, let me just say right now that you probably won't be happy with MSFS at release and the ATC will be the least of your problems.

See, I guess I should have just known better. From day 1 I kept saying, I'll believe it when I see it. And then over the months of "it's going to be perfect, the most amazing simulator ever made, the graphics will embarrass P3D" and on and on and on, I started believing the hype. And a week before it's released, it seems like you are telling me I was right all along.

Sigh.

20 minutes ago, mtr75 said:

they don't know that the instruction "Continue for west departure" has never and will never be issued by an ATC facility

I'm a teacher, and teaching I can tell you is all about language. Beginners in this genre will respond subconsciously and understand what is meant by "continue for west departure", whereas they wouldn't understand a phrase such as "cleared for the NIYAK departure". My feeling is that they are likely doing it intentionally to more easily teach beginners about flying and atc in very general terms. They are not approaching it in the same way that a real flight instructor would, to a serious student preparing for actual flight.

I think that beginners and casual flyers will appreciate that generalized approach, and I think that the hardcore enthusiasts will absolutely hate it. But that's what 3rd party addons are for 🙂... to bring BOTH types of users to the table, all using the same base simulator (and in MP) and keeping them all happy/comfortable at their own level of expertise.

Edited August 11, 20205 yr by hangar

sigh...this is not a new strategy where youtubers get preview access This has been going on for years with big publishers. 

8 minutes ago, mtr75 said:

See, I guess I should have just known better. From day 1 I kept saying, I'll believe it when I see it. And then over the months of "it's going to be perfect, the most amazing simulator ever made, the graphics will embarrass P3D" and on and on and on, I started believing the hype. And a week before it's released, it seems like you are telling me I was right all along.

After I got into the Alpha test, I always made a point about the importance of realistic expectations when I was writing here. And I don't think there is any need to sugar-coat this.

If you're looking at this sim right now and you're thinking that the fidelity of the ATC will keep you from enjoying it, my guess is that there will be numerous other little inaccuracies that might be unacceptable to you. It just is as it is. One day, maybe, it will have reached the level of other sims with addons, like @ca_metal said, but at release it might all seem pretty bare-bones to you.

Edited August 11, 20205 yr by Der Zeitgeist

My biggest complaint so far is the voice Yes, just one voice for ATC/Pilots/Ground. It makes FSX/P3D seem miles ahead hearing multiple different people on the radio. 

Are there places in the world where they actually say DECIMAL? or is it just the computer voice being used? It sounds like a mouthful to me, being 3 syllables... I hope it can be changed to POINT. 

Edited August 11, 20205 yr by reignman40

FSX, FS9, etc, were all entertainment software, designed for the average person to enjoy flight simulation.  Just like the new MSFS will be. It was all the add-on programs like radar contact, ProATC, etc, The plane developers like PMDG, FSlabs, etc, Scenery developers like Orbx, Flytampa, etc, that made the simulator for us die hard enthusiasts.  I see MSFS to be no different. MSFS will be the new platform that third party developers will build on to give us "OUR" next Gen flight simulator that we are all want. 

 

35 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

You probably don't understand why but the above quote is just spot on correct. That is why MS hired a bunch of gamers there in France to put this together. They are 100 percent after Little Johnny's lunch money. That is for the most part why these forums have been a dumpster fire for a year now. It is not a bad thing. It's all about sucking in the dollars. It may progress into something more like a flight sim as time goes by, but it is becoming more and more clear as the release approaches. Good for you in breaking the code.

The level of bitterness in this single comment is insane.

7 minutes ago, mtr75 said:

That was their goal with Flight as well, and look at how that turned out.

See, I guess I should have just known better. From day 1 I kept saying, I'll believe it when I see it. And then over the months of "it's going to be perfect, the most amazing simulator ever made, the graphics will embarrass P3D" and on and on and on, I started believing the hype. And a week before it's released, it seems like you are telling me I was right all along.

Sigh.

No, you're not correct but I don't know what's in your head or expectations. This is no FLIGHT. I have no desire to open P3D or X plane 11. You will just have to see for yourself and know it's still a work in progress. Cant say more than that. 

2 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

If you're looking at this sim right now and you're thinking that the fidelity of the ATC will keep you from enjoying it, my guess is that there will be numerous other little inaccuracies that might be unacceptable to you.

I guess I just don't understand, with all the time and effort that was put into this, why that needs to be the case. But I will see for myself in a week I guess.

It is perfectly acceptable to stick with whatever sim you are currently using.  In fact, there will be advantages to doing that.

They're making a sim tailored to the first time flight simmer.  Some of their design decisions won't be popular with the hard core simming crowd.  

If an improved ATC is that important, someone will make it and sell it as DLC.  

Hook