Wouldn't this discussion make much more sense after release and anyone had a chance to get his own impression?

We're here one group of people trying to excerpt features from a numer of mixed quality YouTube videos. The other groups knows quite a lot about benefits as well as shortcomings but is bound by the NDA.

And most of the changelos are not under NDA but have been copied from the Insider area to AVSIM Articles once (not sure if they are still on the official website after rebuild, but they once were).

Kind regards, Michael

 

2 hours ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

But I'm really growing tired of that point that pops up all the time around here that some testers shouldn't have been picked because they apparently don't know how to fly an airplane.

I don't think that's really the complaint people were making concerning (some) beta testers and previewers; it's more that many clearly didn't really give a cr@p about testing or genuinely examining the thing at all, or ever learning anything about the software in even a remotely investigative manner.

I can absolutely see the point in objections to testers and people who got preview copies, who clearly didn't make any effort in this regard, some of whom, as we know, did not adhere to the NDA either and streamed or published videos. There was quite clearly a fair bit of that going on on facetube, tw@tter etc.

I really don't mind anyone trying a flight sim, the more the merrier, and I think by now people are aware that I'm always willing to answer questions here on Avsim and review stuff on my youtube channel but also don't insist things are always taken seriously, so I'm not in the least bit snobbish about who flies what, or what they do with it. However, when someone puts themselves forward as a previewer or a tester, they should be previewing and testing and if they don't know anything about flying an aeroplane, then that's fine and does not matter at all, and in fact is probably more useful in those roles, but since this is the case, use the software's built in features to learn about that or put it to the test.

Nobody expects them to be rivaling Chuck Yeager and Hanna Reitsch, but we should at least expect a bit of an effort, unless the channel is one with an obvious bent toward comedy, such as the 'Nerd plays' one, where it is just for some amusement, since MS cannot have been unaware of whom they were giving a preview copy to in that case.

That's the issue at hand. As I say, it's not something that I'm personally gonna get wound up about - this is a toy aeroplane game when all is said and done - but neither should these things be deflected by the erroneous notion that complaints are 'because people can't fly a plane' because that's not it at all, it's people abusing the beta test/preview program to get a freebie that they don't really want to test or examine properly at all.

Edited August 11, 20205 yr by Chock

The OP should go to reddit and post a complaint most insiders are over there.

The testers' main function was to stress test the servers.  Finding and reporting bugs was just icing on the cake.  I suspect they also wanted to get people's general overall opinions of the sim.

Yeah, a lot of people had no idea how to fly.  They were still able to get the aircraft in the air, fly around, and land, if none too gracefully.  This is what the first time simmer would be like, and they've attempted to give said simmer a good experience.  I think they've succeeded.

We also had a lot of real world pilots and they tended to be a lot more accepting of the flight model.  It was the simmers who complained.  Well, the flight models can be tuned the same way we've been tuning them in FSX/P3D and I'm sure people will be tuning them after release.  You can get your toy plane to fly exactly the way you want, no matter how far from reality that might be. 🙂 

Hook

You don't get any freebie for doing alpha/beta btw. And the videos as stated before are mostly preview marketing. Actual beta version is so heavily watermarked that it is a pain to fly or watch. But I had the same feelings with watching some of the videos. And cause of that I stopped watching them. You will all be positively surprised about some things and other things will drive you crazy. But even the beta is a few builds behind what they will release so better relax and do your own observations when it is out. 

Cheers T.

Thus discussion shows like there is a choice to be made: a valid flight simulation OR...entertainment.  This product will be both ... in spades! Sorry Xplane, sorry P3d, sorry FSX... Comparisons do not change the nature of this new offering.

 

 

 

 

my $.02

folks who don't know "how to fly" are the ones least likely to use the simulator as a simulator.  they are the ones most likely to do weird things, actions that make no sense to seasoned simmers/pilots, and other oddities.  that's how you catch the bugs.  when people use the product as it was designed, it become a little harder to find the defects because they aren't so apparent always.

16 minutes ago, Chock said:

I don't think that's really the complaint people were making concerning (some) beta testers and previewers; it's more that many clearly didn't really give a cr@p about testing or genuinely examining the thing at all, or ever learning anything about the software in even a remotely investigative manner.

[...]

Nobody expects them to be rivaling Chuck Yeager and Hanna Reitsch, but we should at least expect a bit of an effort

I see where you're getting at, but still, the way this sim was supposed to be tested is much broader than people here realize. Larry already made the point about server stress testing. Apart from that, a big issue for Asobo was accessibility and seeing how well the UI functions in certain scenarios. In many of the early leaks, you'll notice the person flying was using a gaming controller. For a pro simmer, flying an A320 in external view with an X-Box controller might seem completely crazy, but that's exactly what Asobo is interested in. Can you control the plane, can you switch views, is the ATC still usable, all without using a keyboard and a mouse. This is all highly relevant for them when we look at the Xbox release later this year, and this is also a particular area of interest they had for the testing program. 

42 minutes ago, reignman40 said:

Don't I feel silly 😛 I kinda figured, it just seems kinda long winded to me when trying to rattle off something through the mic. 

The word De-si-mal just cannot be mistaken for anything else. Hence ICAO Convention for ATC.

point - can be easily missed/ mis-heard/ mistaken for something else.

4 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

In many of the early leaks, you'll notice the person flying was using a gaming controller. For a pro simmer, flying an A320 in external view with an X-Box controller might seem completely crazy, but that's exactly what Asobo is interested in. Can you control the plane, can you switch views, is the ATC still usable, all without using a keyboard and a mouse.

This is a most excellent point.  It may be the most important information they got out of the entire testing program.

Hook

55 minutes ago, OneOfMany said:

That may be, however for myself and many that I have introduced this new "game" to, they all want to "play" it for the joys of flying the world, without having to invest much more money for the visual experience. 

They are not simmers yet, and maybe they never will be, but they are excited for it, faults and all.

People like that will use it 3-4 times and forget it. That's my opinion.

16 minutes ago, LHookins said:

This is what the first time simmer would be like, and they've attempted to give said simmer a good experience.  I think they've succeeded.

I remember my first six months with FS95 and how I struggled to take off and land in any aircraft. I deliberately left out all attempts pre-FS95 simply because they simply weren't even remotely adequate to the task...

In my not so humble opinion, far too many have forgotten their early days!

34 minutes ago, Chock said:

I don't think that's really the complaint people were making concerning (some) beta testers and previewers; it's more that many clearly didn't really give a cr@p about testing or genuinely examining the thing at all, or ever learning anything about the software in even a remotely investigative manner.

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner.

It's quite often that someone can come along and encapsulate what you were trying to say better than you can. This is what I was trying to say. Like 100%, exactly this.

8 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

In many of the early leaks, you'll notice the person flying was using a gaming controller. For a pro simmer, flying an A320 in external view with an X-Box controller might seem completely crazy, but that's exactly what Asobo is interested in. Can you control the plane, can you switch views, is the ATC still usable, all without using a keyboard and a mouse. This is all highly relevant for them when we look at the Xbox release later this year, and this is also a particular area of interest they had for the testing program. 

Thank you! That is one of the best and most honest bits of information since this whole Goat Rope started. It goes a long way in explaining some of the stuff we have had to read through and where this all is at this point of the game.

3 hours ago, mtr75 said:

The stuff I'm seeing is really starting to make me wonder.

What wonder have you expected? Simple gamers (10k and more) will enjoy this game too, gamer with just a gamepad,

not ok?