46 minutes ago, robert young said:

The comments I hear on the vast majority of videos on MSFS 2020 are almost everything EXCEPT how the sim feels and looks to actually fly,

Heck, *I'll* tell you how it feels and looks to fly.  It feels and looks closer to actually being an a light aircraft than any flight sim I've ever used.  I haven't experienced any of the kind of turbulence you get in Texas on a summer day, but I suspect that's coming.
 

48 minutes ago, robert young said:

My sources tell me that there are quite a few professional pilot testers who are very critical of the flight modelling

My sources, both of them, one on each side of my nose, tell me that the real world pilots in the Beta are much less critical of the flight modeling then the simmers.  I only read threads commenting on GA aircraft, so the airliners may be different.  Perhaps the airliners are flying too much like GA aircraft for everyone's taste.

Hook

2 minutes ago, mtr75 said:

So why design it for them instead of the person who's going to put a few hundred hours on it a year?

Because their money is as good as anyone elses, and there are a lot more of them.

I fly many hundreds of hours a year in the sim, and I feel like it's designed just for me.  Your mileage may vary.

Hook

5 minutes ago, mtr75 said:

Yet how many questions and comments do you see about the incorporation of SIDs and STARs...

SIDs and STARSs are in the flight planner. There is a video on youtube so I'm not revealing anything

Edited August 12, 20205 yr by joec63

6 hours ago, mtr75 said:

That was their goal with Flight as well, and look at how that turned out..

Wasn't Flight limited to just Hawaii?

We have the entire world....freaking China in decent satellite imagery with autogen!

Certainly a few great comments here by those with experience and who have their heads on straight!

Having been through every flight sim release since circa 1980, I will remind everyone that most every simulator release brings some wonderful improvements however it always takes a while for the sim to mature and for third party developers to catch up. This has always been the case.

For my part, I'm an airline guy who immensely enjoys sharing the flight deck with another human whether that is to train them, learn from them, or everything in between. I also do not enjoy flying offline especially with AI ATC - it will always be very unrealistic and doesn't have the human element so it's just not for me.  I'm strictly a realism based network guy and I always will be. The greatest thing about shared cockpit is that we can teach someone the aircraft and/or how to fly online at least 10 times faster than they can on their own and if we get a new guy in a large online event and 90% of them are inescapably hooked!  For those who haven't been able to do this, there's a damned good reason they get hooked - it's an awesome experience, one that too many of you have never tried.

So for the disillusioned... it's time to think realistically and understand that the new sim is quite wonderful but as I said it's going to take time to mature and like all past leaps forward the addon developers will help turn it into something even more diversified.

As always, I leave you with my very best wishes.  For those who care, I'll have more to say in about a week.

Stay frosty!

 

 

 

 

 

 

These youtube people are there for entertainment!  Most of the people I've watched have some knowledge of aircraft but not a lot.   They are all about getting subscriptions etc etc.

Us avsimmers and other forum followers are truly the niche of this already niche market.  What is there maybe 200 active users here?  (and I mean active like they participate in posts weekly).  Maybe 100-200 truly active ones at other forums.  I bet you have 5000 ultra hard core simmers in the world, maybe 20k who enjoy simming and then the rest of the world...the people who would be labeled as a "gamer" and probably interested in the amazing graphics and environment MS is bringing with the new sim.  Anyway these YouTube people are out there to essentially advertise the game (oh no I used that term sacrilege!) - and I bet they're doing it splendidly!

r/MicrosoftFlightSim presently has 16.7k Members and generally 500 to 1000 online. I expect that to grow substantially when the product is released. But I doubt that there are more than a few hundred "active users". Most online communities are like that. A few people provide most of the content.

For comparison, r/Flightsim has 93.5 K members, r/GrandTheftAutoV has 262K, r/Overwatch has 3M and r/gaming has 26M.

4 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said:

r/MicrosoftFlightSim presently has 16.7k Members and generally 500 to 1000 online. I expect that to grow substantially when the product is released. But I doubt that there are more than a few hundred "active users". Most online communities are like that. A few people provide most of the content.

For comparison, r/Flightsim has 93.5 K members, r/GrandTheftAutoV has 262K, r/Overwatch has 3M and r/gaming has 26M.

It's staggering how many people play AAA games vs flight sims. To even stand a chance, we have to let MS cater to both casuals and the more hardcore enthusiasts. To do that you need the flashy elements. There is no other way.

3 hours ago, robert young said:

The level of sheer ignorance in some of these videos is extraordinary, ...

I'm glad you mentioned this, Robert, as I was going to have a rant about some of the YT videos posted by real world pilots and the comments they've made therein. Let's just say I'm pleased that I'll never be flying with them....

23 minutes ago, Shug said:

I'm glad you mentioned this, Robert, as I was going to have a rant about some of the YT videos posted by real world pilots and the comments they've made therein. Let's just say I'm pleased that I'll never be flying with them....

Oh boy. Can't wait for the chattering brigade of the flight sim community educate us all on what's what. 🙄

Yes, I have no doubt that MFS is targeted at the broadest group they can, you only have to observe the number of people that refer to it as a Game as opposed to a Flight Sim. As a “simmer” I’m not too worried about that for the more sales they have, the more money will be invested and ultimately the better the product will become (and survive). For me I still have X-plane to enjoy more serious IFR flying and look to MFS to provide extremely enjoyable and immersive VFR flying. In the fullness of time (providing I live long enough) i’m counting on MFS to improve to the point it will fill all my needs.

I have long observed that one of the traits lacking in this genre is patience.

11 hours ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

I think you have some misconceptions about who this product is primarily aimed at.

Did you expect Asobo was going to request the pilot license of people who applied as testers, or perform an aptitude test before they were deemed worthy to test their product?

Most of the things you mentioned, especially ATC "phraseology", I would guess that maybe 5-10% of the customer base of MSFS will really care about.

Neuman, the team leader on MS side, said the contrary just after the announcement,The product was designed with the hardcore simmers in mind. 

Just now, Dominique_K said:

Neuman, the team leader on MS side, said the contrary just after the announcement,The product was designed with the hardcore simmers in mind. 

Yes, and after more than 30 years of experiencing the gaming industry and its shenanigans, I'm totally sure that this finally is one lead developer we can completely trust because he truly has the hardcore simmers in his heart and this is not a part of a marketing campaign at all. 😋

1 minute ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

Yes, and after more than 30 years of experiencing the gaming industry and its shenanigans, I'm totally sure that this finally is one lead developer we can completely trust because he truly has the hardcore simmers in his heart and this is not a part of a marketing campaign at all. 😋

You are a cynic 😱😄 ! 

Everyone should understand, that a casual gamers significantly helps to finance development MSFS! Without their money it would not possible, that MSFS is so cheap for hardcore simmers too or MSFS would not arise at all! So we must accept, that YouTube will be full of people, who can't control the plane correctly and we must accept, that many of this people got the priority, if ASOBO was selecting alpha/beta testers. And what? I never got an invitation, so i'm simply waiting for release date. Not any problem with this, I will get more complete product, than alpha/beta testers.

Edited August 12, 20205 yr by ludekbrno