1 minute ago, shivers9 said:

My answer to that is.."We have heard all that before". Now that does not mean that they are the same as those before them at all. It does mean that their is some valid reason to take it with a grain of salt. I am sure they are good at what they do and mean well. You just have to understand that MS is a very big world wild machine. These Dev's sit a long way from the guy who writes thir check and decides what FS2020 is going to be.

Neuman is the one deciding what the sim is going to be for the most part. He leads the development.

At this point I think OP just wanted an excuse to complain about YouTubers, trees, clouds, ATC lingo, casual gamers, and other nitpicks, and found that excuse in the beta selection process.

15 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

I belong to the simmers who want this hobby to stay as a high-level game and not been dumbed down to please the XB crowd.

It can be both.  FSX had games and hoops and activities for newcomers but was still useful as a serious simulation.  

A good flight model benefits everyone.  But even FSX had a way to reduce the complexity for the more casual crowd.

I have some high hopes for MSFS for both the serious simmers and the first time flyers.  If version one point zero doesn't have it all, eventually it will all come to pass.

Hook

Just now, Der Zeitgeist said:

But what does that even mean, "supporting a product"?

We are consumers, we can make the choice to buy a product and associated addons or to refrain from doing so. If you go down the road to becoming "fans" who have to "support" a developer or particular product, who have to be grateful that a gaming company has the grace of developing something for you, and maybe preorder something as soon as you're allowed, you're already lost. You have already told the publisher that they don't even have to properly test the product, make sure that's it's mostly feature complete.

And this is exactly how we came into this mess in the first place, where with every new big gaming release, you constantly have to suspect it will be an unfinished and unpolished mess.

 

 

Ah, the old "I don't give a darn about the community I'm part of, just what's right for me at the moment".  Yeah, I know,  you'll say differently, but you'd be just as wrong.  Don't feel bad, it's very much the way that people are in the western world today, so you're in the majority here.  It's not right, it's not even in your best interest, but you're in the majority so do what you, well, ah, "feel" is in your best best at the moment. 

But what if half the community saw the major leaps forward and decided not to purchase because it's not everyhtign they wanted right away?  MS will drop the product development and we're right back where we were 20 years ago.

I come from a different background - I'm retired from the military (so you can rightfully assume I'm a trained and expert leader, manager and decision maker who has done all of these with lives on the line), so team work and what is good for the community is good for me is not only ingrained in everything I do.  Mind you I'm well aware that 50% of the people who read this will not ever come close to understanding how and why I think and make decisions and 49% of the rest think it's just plain strange that I as I do.  That's not condescending, that's reality.  So I rail against the opposite mindset simply because it's a self-defeating one as I described above. 

Also, please understand that my current comments are in the context of my earlier ones today and should be taken as much.

Best wishes.

 

4 minutes ago, RobotRock said:

At this point I think OP just wanted an excuse to complain about YouTubers, trees, clouds, ATC lingo, casual gamers, and other nitpicks, and found that excuse in the beta selection process.

If people are already freaking out over YouTube videos now, before this thing is even released, they better prepare the fainting couch and stock up on smelling salts for the coming months.

33 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

Sounds like sour grapes to me. 

What a boring response. 

7 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

If people are already freaking out over YouTube videos now, before this thing is even released, they better prepare the fainting couch and stock up on smelling salts for the coming months.

LOL...A new sim is always like having a new baby in the family. They are always noisy and they stink a lot of the time but we humans always hope that we can somehow teach them to Add a couple of numbers together and sign their names good enough to at least apply for employment in the future. 

18 minutes ago, RobotRock said:

At this point I think OP just wanted an excuse to complain about YouTubers, trees, clouds, ATC lingo, casual gamers, and other nitpicks, and found that excuse in the beta selection process.

No, my complaint is with having people who clearly know nothing about flying alpha and beta test a flight sim. I wouldn't hire someone like me to beta test a dirtbike or rally car game. I wouldn't hire someone like me to beta test accounting software. I wouldn't hire someone like me to test a train simulator. Because I have absolutely no clue about any of those things. 

Why would you hire someone who treats a Beech King Air like it's in Grand Theft Auto to beta test a flight sim? It just doesn't make any sense. And the bottom line is, those decisions will reflect in the quality of the product. So if you want a worse product than you could have had otherwise, hiring the wrong beta testers is the right way to do it. And this isn't about me not being selected. It's about the fact that after all this development, testing and fixing time, I can watch a video for 2 minutes and find something - as a pilot - to roll my eyes about. 

If you're good with that, cool. 

18 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

If people are already freaking out over YouTube videos now, before this thing is even released, they better prepare the fainting couch and stock up on smelling salts for the coming months.

Stop with the strawman arguments, please. Nobody is freaking out. 

I've been around for a bunch of these sim releases and it's always the same hysterics at first.  This will be no different. 

 

Falcon 3.0, 4.0, etc

EA Jane's: Longbow, Longbow 2, F-15, F-18 

Flight Simulator 3.0
1989	Flight Simulator 4.0
1990
1991
1992
1993	Flight Simulator 5.0
1994
1995	Flight Simulator 5.1
1996	Flight Simulator 95
1997	Flight Simulator 98
1998
1999	Flight Simulator 2000
2000
2001	Flight Simulator 2002
2002
2003	Flight Simulator 2004
2004
2005
2006	Flight Simulator X

Like you, I'm not at all impressed with the level of competency of some of the beat testers based on their videos.  However, I'm guessing that many qualified, competent, and knowledgeable testers don't have a youtube channel and simply aren't making videos.  A lot of these youtubers are just trying to cash in on their beta testing of the new sim because they know they'll get a lot of views.

I believe that things like the ATC, clouds, and vegetation and building objects will either be improved by the original developers, or addons to replace them will become available over the coming months and years. These things will get sorted out one way or another over time.  Hopefully, not too much time.

I don't plan on buying the new sim until the end of the year at the earliest, as I know that upon release there will be many flaws and bugs that will take time to fix.

Dave

I’m having a hard time comprehending a generalization about the 1000s of alpha/beta testers based on the relatively tiny % that are posting videos on YouTube.

Edited August 12, 20205 yr by regis9

10 minutes ago, mtr75 said:

If you're good with that, cool.

Did you miss my post that mentioned that the Beta people weren't the testers?  Asobo has an internal team of professional testers.  We just provided them some input.

Hook

1 minute ago, regis9 said:

I’m having a hard time comprehending a generalization about the 1000s of alpha/beta testers based on the relatively tiny % that are posting videos on YouTube.

Only the youtubers were approved to show video or discuss the sim. Everyone else is still under the NDA.

14 minutes ago, mtr75 said:

No, my complaint is with having people who clearly know nothing about flying alpha and beta test a flight sim. I wouldn't hire someone like me to beta test a dirtbike or rally car game. I wouldn't hire someone like me to beta test accounting software. I wouldn't hire someone like me to test a train simulator. Because I have absolutely no clue about any of those things. 

Why would you hire someone who treats a Beech King Air like it's in Grand Theft Auto to beta test a flight sim? It just doesn't make any sense. And the bottom line is, those decisions will reflect in the quality of the product. So if you want a worse product than you could have had otherwise, hiring the wrong beta testers is the right way to do it. And this isn't about me not being selected. It's about the fact that after all this development, testing and fixing time, I can watch a video for 2 minutes and find something - as a pilot - to roll my eyes about. 

If you're good with that, cool. 

You still don't get it do you after 13 pages! It's all about *MARKETING* with the recent influx of well know YouTubers gaining access, it has absolutely nothing to do with them beta testing the Sim/Game/Simcade in any way shape or form.

I mean GamerMuscle getting access is a clear indication that they have no intention of listening to his views, more so that he self-promotes it on his channel which gets thousands of hits.....Marketing, that's all it is, nothing more nothing less.

Unless you're actually against all the Beta Testers that you know nothing about, which would make your views even more odd quite frankly and ranting about them in this way is just plain weird mate!